Posts by 2+2=5

28

JWs have not "disfellowshipped" anyone publicly in several years

by RayPublisher in

if you want to get technical, jws have not "disfellowshipped" anyone publicly in several years.

they stopped saying,.

"joe blow has been disfellowshipped.

2+2=5 cited this fact about the shrinking amount of elders. Perhaps the coming implosion?

by wha happened? in

at the last elders school i heard from a few different attendees that the average age was easily 60+.

there will be a lot of elders gone within the next 10yrs.

there is nowhere near enough young brothers to replace these ageing elders.

I believe in Australia this is a legitimate concern for the society, just from what I have heard from other elders. Sure there are plenty of elders that are in their 30's and 40's but I think around 50% would be over 60. There are two congregations that I know of where they are all late 60s and 70s except a couple of elders in their 40s. Even the average age of some whole congregations is very high. At least half of my cong will be buried in the next 10 to 15 years.

The younger JWs are a different breed from the old faithfull. They are nothing like the zealous devoted old timers. I reckon the younger ones would put far less in the contribution boxes then they would have decades ago. Like Pyrimad Scheme said, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel, they are gonna have to lower standards otherwise they won't have any brothers taking the lead. The only young ones I see reaching out are doing it to make themselves more attractive to the spiritual opposite sex. There are exceptions of course, but the society does not have anywhere near the numbers they need reaching out to replace the others soon gone.

40

Another visit from the elders

by jonno12225 in

jw
friends

so i have another visit from the elder this week.

this time they want to speak with my wife, still a believer and myself.

i think they want to know my position about my children attending the meetings and some other things.. while preparing myself for it i though of a challenge for the elders and my wife.

2+2=5

Yes I agree with those saying don't meet. Do what is best for your marriage, only you will know what that is. If you feel you should meet, be very careful in what you say and how you say it. Record it even.

Your questions are not going to matter to them. The only question that is going to matter is the one they will ask you, "do you believe Jehovah is directing this organization on earth today". If you say no, they will be looking for JC meeting for apostasy.

36

What argument is there for a single God?

by Qcmbr in

mormon culture is replete with the concept of multiple gods and requires it to work.

other than a few biblical references does anyone have any compelling arguments for why any god, deist , creationist or full on personal god would - of necessity- be alone.

the argument seems somewhat weaker if the gender is applied as well.

2+2=5

Paul McCartney is God. Everything suddenly makes sense.

21

Has disproving the "Truth" become an obsession for you at times?

by Pyramid Scheme in

jw
friends

i was curious if anyone else has gone through a similar experience.. when i became inactive 4 years ago, i went through a period of not being able to focus on just about anything, other than doing tremendous amounts of research to prove to myself what my beliefs were, and to clearly identify my issues with the jw organization.

i was mad - and i was on a mission to build the ultimate case against the wt.

however, having read the fine advice on here, i backed off with my family, since it would have just gotten ugly.. i avoided posting on here for years, and had cut down my research and put it on the back burner.. however, i still felt a need to "witness" to my family and to have an open discussion with my wife.

2+2=5

When I was first researching the 607 thing it was the weirdest feeling. JWs often relate how they came to know the troof, and I could never really relate because I was virtually a born in. But I think discovering the TATT would be something like they felt, maybe even more powerful for me.

Once I knew 607/1914 was founded on very shaky ground, along with the disgraceful way the GB misrepresents what they use to believe and what their expectations were for 1914, I started to realize everything I thought to be true had a very weak foundation. It was literally the first thing I thought about in the morning and the last thing on my mind when I went to sleep at night. It consumed my thoughts all day at work. Research was the first thing I did when I got home from work and I could not stop till very late at night. My stomach was in knots, and I had lost my appetite for weeks. My life with my family was suffering because I just could not stop learning and consuming information with every spare moment I had.

I was shocked at how many JW doctrines are questionable. I always felt the Revelation Grand Speculation book was a bit of a stab in the dark interpretation, but was surprised how much I believed was flimsy.

Like others have said, this site is full of people who can relate. I guess I am a jw-net junkie.

25

Do JWs Really Still care about the "Truth"?

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

i often read posts on here citing some km school or wt article and the comment that "now they are tightening their grip" or "they will now go after faders" etc, etc.

my perception is that the vast majority of jws, including the elders, are suffering from apathy and fatigue.

most simply don't care anymore.

2+2=5

I was talking to my wife about this the other day. The majority of JWs are just trying to live normal lives, make money while they can, enjoy life now, prepare for retirement. The GB does try to build urgency for the great tribulation, but the current 35 - 45 yr old JWs have seen there parents grow old, while never expecting 'this system' to hang around. They know better than to put all their eggs in the WT new system basket.

The WT regularly says things like 'the kingdom preaching work should be the number one focus in our lives'. How many JWs could honestly say that it is? Witnessing for the majority is just a token service that they give because they are told it is required. Even many of the younger elders don't live like we are in the 'last of the last days'.

I know quite a few young family men who are pretty good JWs, they attend the meetings, out witnessing nearly every Saturday without fail. But they can't get considered for MS appointment because they don't get enough hours in. The GB will have to lower the standards for MS and elder requirements. Either that or wait for the next September 11 scale catastrophe that they can use to beat up the urgency. They need to do something because there is a major problem with young brothers not reaching out in the org. At the last elders school I heard from a few different attendees that the average age was easily 60+. There will be a lot of elders gone within the next 10yrs. There is nowhere near enough young brothers to replace these ageing elders. This is going to be a huge burden on the society fairly soon.

51

Does an "all knowing" God have the leisure of choosing not to know something?

by wannabefree in

this concept just always caused a conflict in my mind.

i can remove the idea of predestination with knowing something in advance, why would the watch tower insist that god chooses not to know something?

is that even possible for god?

2+2=5

The WT has used an illustration about a really strong man to explain how Jehovah chooses not to know everything.

It goes something like . . . . Just because this strong individual has the ability to move very heavy items, this does not mean that he will pick up every heavy thing he sees. He can choose when to exercise his ability. Similarly, Jehovah can choose when to use his ability. . . . .

Not a terrible illustration on the surface, but if given any thought, it does not make sense.

I can remember at the field service group years ago we were discussing this magazine before we went out. There was an old sister who highlighted this illustration and commented how brilliant it was. Gotta love that faithfull slave and that awesome spiritual food.

152

How Long has it Been since you Last Attended Meetings and What Caused...

by flipper in

jw
friends

..... you to stop attending ?

injustices ?

disagree with the teachings ?

2+2=5

A week or so. Been busy. I do enjoy staying at home or doing other things.

51

Clapping at the meetings and assembly

by NewYork44M in

jw
friends

i had a random thought this morning about clapping.

growing up in the wt culture i learned the proper protocol for clapping.

before the assembly speaker gave his talk, but not after.

2+2=5

Another bored, Distriction Convention past-time: Try to be the first or the very last person to clap in the whole audience. This is the highlight of the whole weekend for bored JW kids, especially after they ditched the canteen ticket food scheme. Always makes me laugh when a couple of over enthusiastic teenagers try and get an applause going but it doesn't catch on. Just a few loud solitary claps mid sentence. Lol. Cue the tumbleweed.

43

Anyone here who is still a Jehovahs Witness and havent given up yet, Please answer me!

by Vienna Angelika in

jw
friends

i am wanting to connect to current jws who are going through a tough time and are going through a similar time as me.

not any jw haters, just balanced concerned jws who havent quite given up yet..

2+2=5

While I disagree with a significant amount of the teachings of the GB, I still see no reason enough to leave. I may dislike the leadership, but I love the "sheep" :) Besides I got family in the "truth" so that complicates matters. ALso, all my friends, people I really love and care for, are there. I would be a bit lost if I'd leave, honestly.

This is almost my situation exactly. The teachings of the GB that I know are wrong are significant enough for me to know that the religon is not the truth. Brothers and sisters have been thrown out of the org for disagreeing with 1914, a speculative date used to promote urgency with no foundation in scripture.

There are many more things the GB teach that is just interpretation of the bible and should not be taught as truth. The GB fit Matthew 23.

I can't go witnessing anymore, after waking up to the truth. I considered it, just to avoid the wierd social situations where being inactive is like having a severe disability or sickness and everyone has pity for you and judges you. But no, no more witnessing for me ever again.

What makes it really come to a head is when you have children. I have young children and I have to either raise them in what I no is a lie, or I have to do what I feel is correct and best for them. I can't do it. I missed out on playing sport and pursuing interests and I don't want my kids to do the same.

It really is a mess of a situation when all your freinds and family are in but you become aware of the truth. I resent the governing body for their ridiculous shunning policies that have turned so many people's lives to crap. If I speak what I feel, I would be df'd and my kids would miss out on seeing there grandparents.

There is no easy solution or easy way out for myself and for others. You sell your life for the cause and if you want to leave the GB will make sure you leave with some scars.