Nostonecutters. *** The Gospel becomes 'carnal' when seperated from the Church ***
God's word becomes carnal when separated from his Spirit in Christ....1 John 2:27
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Pterist
JoinedPosts by Pterist
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85
Similarities between Roman Catholics and Jehovah`s Witnesses
by smiddy inboth claim to be the sole path to god (or did at some point ).
both claim to reach back to first century christians ,( though jw`s are a bit ambiguous about this).
the r.c church has a pope , the j.w.`s have a governing body ,both providing spiritual food to the faithful.
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Pterist
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12
Two Lies Taught About Ray Franz Jr.
by ÁrbolesdeArabia in1. ray franz went insane and the watchtower society removed him from the governing body out of compassion.. .
"crisis of conscience" is a story of a "man with the agenda to destroy the watchtower", full of hatred and anger.. .
i have finished reading coc and can emphatically tell you, ray writes with great skill, love and compassion for his fellow christians and witnessses.
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Pterist
I sent him a letter after I read COC, it had just been published.
I asked him many questions but I only remember one of his replies that echoes In my ears about accomplishments, that keeps me grounded ...."IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A BIG FANFAIR, IT'S THE LITTLE THINGS THAT COUNT. Although I did not know him personally, his words revealed a humble man.
Shalom.
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85
Similarities between Roman Catholics and Jehovah`s Witnesses
by smiddy inboth claim to be the sole path to god (or did at some point ).
both claim to reach back to first century christians ,( though jw`s are a bit ambiguous about this).
the r.c church has a pope , the j.w.`s have a governing body ,both providing spiritual food to the faithful.
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Pterist
Both have a priesthood that separates from the laity. Just let the priest do your thinking for you, and jump through their ritualistic hoops.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
Thanks JwFacts :)
How is life treating you friend ?
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
Jeffro-
Thanks for the more exact details Jeffro. Most of us would agree while dates and times are very subjective that the sequence of events are not.
We can see clearly from scripture, that Babylon was given power to rule. We can see his visits to Jerusalem, taking Daniel and his group in the first visit, taking Jechoniah and his group in his second visit and finally in a third visit destroying Jerusalem and Zedekiah's group.
It is also evident that the first two groups were given promises of a restoration, conversely, the third group under Zedekiah were NOT as Jehovah's reference to them as "Bad Figs" to be destroyed and No Restoration. So any reference to 70 years of exile for this third group to restoration, is meaningless and error. And this is precisely what the WTBS has hung its dating on.
We all make mistakes and are not without error, however, for the WBTS these dates are their justification and claim to be the ONLY channel, and NOT accepting their dates are grounds for disfellowshiping, as I know too well.
Thanks again
Shalom.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
Sorry 587 - 50 = 537 close enough to 539.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
Ethos ...you completely ignored the " bag figs" context.........no return from exile for them !
And who where they ? Zedekiah and those who were destroyed in Jerusalem...NO RETURN FROM EXILE for them....
Who were promised a return ? Daniel's group and Jechoniah' group Matthew 1:11-12, Jeremiah 29:1-10. AFTER BABYLON's 70 year rule.
The WBTS bases it's dates on 70 years of exile from the time of the death of Zedekiah , the destruction of Jerusalem, and those who were exiled and destroyed forever. ....No return from exile for them ! They take the secular date 539 + 70 ...which they calculate as 607 BC and sequently that makes Daniels exile 629 BC and Jechoniah's exile 619 BC....This is the source of their error. When we take scripture at Jeremiah 25:1-12 ...the exile would start with Daniel, then Jechoniah, during the 70 years rule of Babylon...539 + 70 = 609 ......Daniel 609 approx, Jechoniah 597 approx. Zedekiah and Jerusalem destruction 587...where the land paid off it sabbaths .....587 - 50 = 537 close enough to 530 ....but NOT close enough to have your whole organisation's existence as its foundation. It's just one of many studies of eschatology , NOT A condition for salvation.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
Ethos ...****Premise 3: Regarding Jeremiah 29:10,other modern translations, like the ESV, says, “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place."**
Once again......the WTBS bases the critical date of Zedekiah's loss of kingship and the destruction of Jerusalem.....587 BC or 607 BC
The address at Jeremiah 29:10 is to those already in exile (Daniel the first group and Jechoniah's group) Zedekiah was still in Jerusalem ruling, and that last group that did NOT obey Jehovah to go into exile are the bad figs.
A Letter to the Exiles
29 This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. 2 (This was after King Jehoiachin [a] and the queen mother, the court officials and the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem, the skilled workers and the artisans had gone into exile from Jerusalem.) Matthew 1:11-12
Jeremiah 24
8 “But as for the bad figs, so bad they are inedible, this is what the Lord says: in this way I will deal with king Zedekiah of Judah, his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem—those remaining in this land and those living in the land of Egypt. 9 I will make them an object of horror and disaster to all the kingdoms of the earth, a disgrace, an object of scorn, ridicule, and cursing, wherever I have banished them. 10 I will send the sword, famine, and plague against them until they have perished from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.” 8 “But as for the bad figs, so bad they are inedible, this is what the Lord says: in this way I will deal with king Zedekiah of Judah, his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem—those remaining in this land and those living in the land of Egypt. 9 I will make them an object of horror and disaster to all the kingdoms of the earth, a disgrace, an object of scorn, ridicule, and cursing, wherever I have banished them. 10 I will send the sword, famine, and plague against them until they have perished from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.” 8 “But as for the bad figs, so bad they are inedible, this is what the Lord says: in this way I will deal with king Zedekiah of Judah, his officials, and the remnant of Jerusalem—those remaining in this land and those living in the land of Egypt. 9 I will make them an object of horror and disaster to all the kingdoms of the earth, a disgrace, an object of scorn, ridicule, and cursing, wherever I have banished them. 10 I will send the sword, famine, and plague against them until they have perished from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.You seem to be confused who is being addressed at Jeremiah 29:10 ! Its NOT the bad figs and subsequently they were NOT among those who were returned after Babylon's rule and if The WBTS want to set 70 years of exile, it must be based on the exile of Daniel's and Jechoniah's group. Matthew 1:11-12.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
You did not reply to my reference to the "bad figs" under Zedekiah that would NOT return!
First visit 607 aprox. Daniels group...to return after Babylon's 70 years
Second group approx. 597 Jehochin's group after Babylons's 70 years?..Matthew 1:11-12
Third group aprox. 587 under Zedekiah the "BAD FIGS" NOT to return.
Groups of exiles returned at different times, but NOT the "BAD FIGS"?...the WBTS bases the exile and RETURN of the Bad Figs, which did not happen.
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529
Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Pterist
****Premise 3: Regarding Jeremiah 29:10,other modern translations, like the ESV, says, “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place."*****
There were 3 Visits to Jerusalem 1. Daniel and sundry were exiled in the first visit by Babylon 609/607 BC 2. The good figs namely Jechoniah and his brothers visit by Babylon approx. 597 BC 3. The bad figs were destroyed and WOULD NOT come back under Zedekiah when Jerusalem was destroyed approx. 586/587 BC **Jeremiah 29:10,other modern translations, like the ESV, says, “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, *** This was addressed to Daniel's group and the "GOOD FIGS" that were exiled under Jechoniah AS JERUSALEM AND ZEDEKIAH WAS NOT DESTROYED AT THAT TIME. ..... You will have to wait until Jeremiah 32:...in the TENTH year of Zedekiah which was the eighteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar that the word came for his and Jerusalem's destruction.
There was NO EXILE FOR Zedekiah and the BAD FIGS 1 The LORD showed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrez'zar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconi'ah the son of Jehoi'akim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon. 2 Kgs. 24.12-16 · 2 Chr. 36.10 2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad. 3 Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. 4 ¶ Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chalde'ans for their good. 6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up. 7 And I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart. 8 ¶ And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedeki'ah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt: 9 and I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them. 10 And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers. Even Matthew the gospel writer specified the exile occurred under Jechoniah. Matthew 1:11-12 So , Jehovah by means of Jeremiah @ chapter 29:10 was NOT talking about 70 years of exile from the time of Zedekiah and the destruction of Jerusalem. By your own calculations or should I say the WBTS, that would date Jechoniah's exile in 617 BC, 10 years before your 607 BC ...making ...80 years of exile .....617-537 = 80 years ...Totally wrong..... Scriptures show it was 70 years for Babylon...the org. got all its dates from the SDA and tweaked the dates like other scripture to their imminent down fall. All these dates are NOT important to most Christians as they accept The simple gospel of a changed life in Christ, but unfortunately the WBTS has made it their foundation and justification of their authority, if the dates are wrong, who selected them in 1874, 1914, 1919 or whatever date they currently use. Shalom.