you could ask about the discrepancies in the bible - the really indisputable ones like all the problems with the jesus grave/resurrection accounts. that may be sufficiently far from their doctrine to get them to think.
MrRoboto
JoinedPosts by MrRoboto
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114
JW Stumper Questions - List You Best Here
by pale.emperor inhi guys.
sooner or later we're going to get a jw knocking on our door.
just like when we were jw's doing the knocking, it's good to have a question prepared to get them thinking about their own beliefs.
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315
Flat earth vs round earth
by Jrjw inmy brother has been talking about the earth being flat and some big conspiracy going on to make people beieve otherwise.
what are people's thoughts on this?.
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MrRoboto
pointless indeed. can someone close this thread?
is that a thing here?
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315
Flat earth vs round earth
by Jrjw inmy brother has been talking about the earth being flat and some big conspiracy going on to make people beieve otherwise.
what are people's thoughts on this?.
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MrRoboto
JP1692 - making assumptions is not the way to prove things. If you base your belief on your belief, it will be self-reinforcing. i.e. "It must be god's organization because the governing body is appointed by god"
How many circles do you want to run around mentally?
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315
Flat earth vs round earth
by Jrjw inmy brother has been talking about the earth being flat and some big conspiracy going on to make people beieve otherwise.
what are people's thoughts on this?.
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MrRoboto
slimboyfat, thats a good point. I think at least most folks here have had to at some point take a look at some things that they just knew were true and reexamine them. Then they started to realize that there is a different perspective, that the GB doesn't necessarily have their best interests in mind and that there's more to the story than what they've been led to believe by those in charge, the many thousands in charge who may or may not believe the truth of their own words as they lead the "sheep" to the slaughter. The fact that we've made it to this forum likely means that thankfully, we were able to see things from a different perspective, even if it took many years and much research.
Even then, some post-JW folk believe in the bible, and some dont, so even in re-examining their own perspective, we did not all come to the same conclusions in the end, but at least we got out (even if only mentally for some) from under the thumb of the bORG.
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315
Flat earth vs round earth
by Jrjw inmy brother has been talking about the earth being flat and some big conspiracy going on to make people beieve otherwise.
what are people's thoughts on this?.
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MrRoboto
PopSci rebuttal: "10 easy ways you can tell for yourself that the Earth is not flat"
(from https://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round)
Keep in mind, they say that YOU can tell for YOURSELF. Let's see if that's true about these "proofs" or if they are just interesting observations that could support a round earth THEORY, or if its just strawman, or just assumptions.
Some of these will hurt to consider, but be objective, dont make assumptions.
1. Lunar Eclipse
a. You cant personally prove that the sun is actually what causes the moon's illumination
b. even if it was, you can't personally prove that the earth is the object casting the shadow
2. Ships / horizon "he reason ships appear as if they “emerge from the waves” is because the world is not flat: It’s round."
a. actually, they reappear if you zoom in with a camera -quite interesting. you can prove that for yourself and this appear as if they “emerge from the waves” thing actually would work the same on a flat plane or a round earth of the size we are told our earth is. so no proof either way here, though flatters take the zoom in / reappear effect to mean its flat.
3. Varying star constellations based on your location
a. this can be observed directly by simply going somewhere else far enough away. here the problem is interpretation of data because with a flat plane of sufficient size, you would not be able to see the entire sky and would see different parts of it depending on where you are.
4. Shadows/Sticks I like this one but again it's a matter of interpreting the data. there's a reason that flat-earthers believe the sun is "close" and to a flat earther, these sticks/shadows is proof. whether its a close sun/flat eath or a round earth of about 250,000 stadia, the result is the same so there's no "proof" here either since multiple models explain the same data.
5. seeing farther from higher works same on flat earth or round earth. look it up. do the math.
6. Ride a plane
a. point 1 was vague and without enough details to be worth them mentioning
b. there's a great mythbusters episode where the blond guy gets in a U-2 spyplane and goes to 67,500ft where he mentions the definitive curve of the planet, yet when they are switching to the various cameras (the one pointing directly towards him for ex.) you can see the flatness behind him. ironic that they show the flatness at the same time he's making the comment. also they are using fisheye lenses for most of the cameras but not all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0bwlQMch3s
7. Look at other planets well, all we can personally do is look.. at the lights.. in the sky. we can zoom in a bit too if we have a nice telescope but still it's just lights in the sky from where we are. where's the proof in that?
8. Time Zones "This can only be explained if the world is round, and rotating around its own axis" actually no that's not true either. If there is even one other explanation for timezones (there is), then this argument is flawed. Also, they are throwing in some "sun as a spotlight" strawman nonsense.
9. Gravity While their treatment of gravity on a sphere is fair, they make some assumptions about gravity on a flat plane. "The center of mass of a flat plane is in its center, so the force of gravity will pull anything on the surface toward the middle of the plane" This sounds ok at first but then you have to remember that you don't know the shape of whatever is beneath the flat plane so you really cant model how the gravity should be. If you reverse engineer it and model the shape of mass beneath based on gravity and a flat plane, you would be able to compute a certain shape for that underworld mass, but that doesn't mean its accurate. Assumptions are not proof and border on strawman arguments.
10. Images from space
a. we havent personally taken them so we cant "tell for yourself" based on these
b. many NASA photos are faked, and obviously so. this you CAN tell for yourself if you are willing to put in the time, maybe one or two hours of looking at (official) nasa photos and doing research.
I'm not a flat earth proponent but they do have some valid observations and refutations of many of the common "proofs" that are given for round earth. Be skeptical, about ball earth, about flat earth, about everything - prove it to yourself but use solid reasoning and personal observation and experiment. If you don't like anytihng I've said here, research it yourself. If the "proof" is personally unverifiable, then you can't use it to "tell for yourself" and if multiple explanations match a given "proof" then it's not a proof at all, but simply an observation that might support your theory.
I've spent many hours researching, experimenting, observing. If you haven't, then that could explain the different perspective we have. Sounds alot like "apostates" talking to JWs. (edited for clarity after posting)
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315
Flat earth vs round earth
by Jrjw inmy brother has been talking about the earth being flat and some big conspiracy going on to make people beieve otherwise.
what are people's thoughts on this?.
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MrRoboto
DJS - I'm not going to debunk the satellites, professionals astronauts or weather balloons. What I'm going to do is refute the things that people say they can use to prove a round earth. Sounds funny right - but you cant use satellites to prove anything - YOU cant. Have you built one, launched one, seen it in operation? No. So the common person can't actually use those things. That's not in your realm of knowledge and experience. Even those who work with such things don't actually see them in action. That's all just assumption on our part that they do what/where we have been told.
Trusting what we have been told because those in authority told us so... well if that's where your low bar of evidence is, then I suggest you go back to Watchtower and the 7 Kings.
Waton, I don't insinuate that I can prove their claims. What I have explicitly said is that I will debunk PopSci's bogus "10 ways YOU CAN PROVE earth is round" because YOU can't PROVE that with what they gave. Also, I welcome your "absolutely right arguments, proofs" but all I've seen so far is the same ole garbage "science."
Don't worry, It's coming.
But for whatever your belief system is, Admiral Byrd really has some interesting things to say about Antarctica - you should definitely have a go at his interviews. Don't worry, he doesn't promote a certain shape/view but he has some amazing observations that most of us never knew about.
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315
Flat earth vs round earth
by Jrjw inmy brother has been talking about the earth being flat and some big conspiracy going on to make people beieve otherwise.
what are people's thoughts on this?.
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MrRoboto
I'm going to debunk the proofs of every single point from that PopSci article in just a few hours. PopSci is known for yellow journalism and its no different here.
Oh yeah, did I mention enough times that I'm not even a flat earther?
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36
Kleenex Head Covering
by jwundubbed ingrowing up a woman in the cult was pretty bleak.
most of the adult women i knew were either depressed sad women or an embarrassment to me.
i was typical kid in that regard.
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MrRoboto
Im PIMO and do next to nothing in the bORG but this literally makes me want to start a bible study so I can take a sister with and have her conduct it with some kind of covering - Just to show outsiders how ridiculous things can be - I wonder if they will want to have another study session after that..
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23
A Former Jehovah's Witness shares her me too story
by LisaRose inhttps://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/12/16/a-former-jehovahs-witness-shares-her-metoo-story/.
when i was 23 years old, i started dating a (jehovah’s) witness boy and we’d go out to some dance clubs.
there was a night in particular where i had too much to drink.
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MrRoboto
Awful.
What throws salt on the wound though is when the victims try to deal with things in the organization.
Not her fault and if I was her brother or father - that boy would get a lesson he would never forget.
Been raped or abused (phys or sex)?
Step 1: Go directly to POLICE
Step 2: Get a LAWYER
Step 3: Refer questioning JWs to the lawyer - this includes elders and JCs
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MrRoboto
Here's a new-ish theory, probably only around since the 90s:
The shear number of Arrogant Anal Discharge Orifices (AADOs) on the internet are drastically increasing every day.
Cheers to those AADOs who made it their mission to post on this forum! /s