TMS,
i have been online for almost ten years. i have been an active member of several bbs ever since. no post, anywhere, by anyone has EVER made tears to come to my eyes.
till now.
Posts by teejay
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18Tale of a Black Congregation Part I
by TMS inexposure to two distinct cultures has impacted my life.
first, as a young blonde lad from the pacific northwest, i was catapulted into the hispanic culture of the rio grande valley in 1961. on the border, by the sea was the chamber of commerce slogan, but the change in venue was more dramatic than simply moving from a land of mountains and douglas fir to beaches, bougainvilla, grapefruit and beaches.
it was the warmth and closeness of the mexican families, the new sounds and flavors and , yes, the salon del reino that intrigued and humbled this know-it-all young pioneer.
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108
What drives exJWs to atheism?
by ros ina significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.
most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.
they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?
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teejay
Rochelle and Mulan? I think your two posts fit together very well. Taken together, they answer Roz' question of why people -- specifically JWs -- become atheists/agnostics very well. Ex-JWs quit believing in the Watchtowers concept of god. It does not, however, cause them to leave spirituality all together.
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In the name of belated wisdom
by Kent inif we take a critical view on the last weeks events on this board, there is maybe a thing or two to consider.
the board has seen a kind of war, and sarcasms and caustic remarks have been more the rule than the exception in some threads.
usually these ends up adding something positive to the community or the forum where the war raged, and its much like a thunderstorm.
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teejay
Two thoughts, Kent.
1. One comment sorta jumped out at me. You said, "The fact that I myself has been online for years doesn't stop me for making an ass of myself every now and then."
Rhetorical question: Every now and then? <smile>
2. Do you really believe any of what you said ... enough to follow your own advice?
Just curious.
peace,
todd ~ wondering what's up with the all-new Kent..... -
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What drives exJWs to atheism?
by ros ina significant number of former jehovah's witnesses come out of the watchtower still believing the bible and considering themselves christians.
most coming out are in a serious state of bewilderment, and they look intently and sincerely for something to fill the huge void of lost religion, lost family and friends, and lost fellowship.
they seek some viable spiritual association with others of like mind while at the same time having become very wary of any organized religion.. what is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism?
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teejay
Ros, you said, "What is it that eventually draws so many of us (not me) to agnosticism or atheism? ... the ONE influencing factor that I have observed to reign supreme over the years ... is the convergence on us by never-been-a-JW-"bornagain" evangelicals driven by a schizoid holyspirit mission to preach to exJWs."
I really don't think that true of most. I've found that most who 'turn atheist,' particularly after having lived a significant part of their life giving in to "faith" as a JW, do so because they begin to rely on those areas of the brain that they have long ignored. "Faith" is no longer enough to explain the world they live in -- they require evidence to provide direction for life.
I thoroughly enjoyed proplog2's explanation of the brain's development, how years ago intuition (and its byproducts faith and imagination) was a useful, even necessary function of humans. With the development of religion as a means to explain the unexplainable, intuition was no longer effective or useful since intuition requires some form of tangible evidence, if only on the subconscious level.
Later you said that, "logic, in of itself, can be flawed." I think you're right. Logic is a study no different than paleontology or biology, and what is logical to one may not be to another. That's why it's common for scientists to "logically" arrive at different conclusions. However, prop2's reasoning takes it outside the realm of logic to the need for evidence when he mentioned the "water on wool, not on dew" miracle. ANY evidence that points to a living god other than the created elements and cycles that have been at work for hundreds of thousands of years would help people like me have a stronger "belief." Rem touched on this also when he mentioned Santa Claus.
EVIDENCE, or rather the lack of it, is what leads many to atheism/agnosticism, imo. It would be a life altering experience to hear god's voice, see a miracle, ANYTHING that could be scientifically affirmed that would give birth to a belief in the invisible that staunch "believers" have without question. Insistence on the need for evidence says to me that atheists aren't out of their minds. Christians say that God answers every prayer, that if the requests expressed in the prayer go unanswered only means that God's answer was "no." While the prayers aren't to me, I 'hear' the prayers of countless defenseless children all over the world who hope the beatings and the sexual assaults will stop; of the mothers who simply want medicine or food for their weak and starving babies. The only way that any of these prayers receive a "yes" is when humans get involved.
What logical reason does an all-powerful, supremely loving, god have to answer "no" to such prayers? The evidence points to -- "there IS no god."
peace,
todd
___________________________________________________A new idea is the result of the dethroning of a reigning God. - Christopher Hyatt
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Gleaning at Bethel
by Black Man inwant to see bethelites act like greedy scavengers?
just check out the tail end of bethel family breakfast, lunch or dinners.
for those not familar with this phenomenon, gleaning was when bethelites could basically bring their tupperware dishes down and store up on the leftover meals once the family was dismissed (usually by prayer, except for the bethel dinner).
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teejay
on the real, you guys need, really need, to get together and write a
book. it will be very popular, and the average library will not be
able to keep a copy, not that any JWs would ever steal it, oh no.serious. think about it. put it down on paper. chewin' the fat here
is one thing -- publishing it is the next step. -
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Gleaning at Bethel
by Black Man inwant to see bethelites act like greedy scavengers?
just check out the tail end of bethel family breakfast, lunch or dinners.
for those not familar with this phenomenon, gleaning was when bethelites could basically bring their tupperware dishes down and store up on the leftover meals once the family was dismissed (usually by prayer, except for the bethel dinner).
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teejay
how's it going there, guy? these stories are so funny... and the expressions you use... "mofo," "straight up," and "dawg." they're so, so... charming. pleased to have you here with us Black Man. say, by the way, i don't mean to pry or offend, but are you... ah.... er... a Negro brother?
a salaam alaikum,
todd -
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Archie: Requiescat In Pace
by Maximus in..................caroll o'connor.................... ..........................rip............................... all in the family.
archie: now, no predjudice intended, but i always check with the bible on these here things.
i think that, i mean if god had meant for us to be together he'd have put us together.
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teejay
hi, Max my friend.
i loved that show. they were talking about it on the radio on the way to work
this morning. brought back a lot of memories. the panel seemed to think that
it made a difference in race relations. do YOU think so? personally, i think the
Archie types who watched the show would either think he was absolutely right
about everything or else they wouldn't recognize themselves and laugh right
along with the rest of the family.hopefully the TV Land network will do a 24-hr marathon. i'll have to have my
VCR ready.RIP, indeed.
peace
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Question for Tina
by Maximus inskimming earlier, i noticed the name satir.. i had occasion to work with a very special older woman who was an absolute delight.
she had trained with virginia satir, who is now long dead, and vs had invited her to be part of her peace group.
(starts with an a?
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teejay
And here i was thinking that I went back far. Whew! The only things that
ring a bell is the big chart in the front of the hall. Kinda bittersweet, though. The
memories, the people you remember. The lost and stolen simple joys of life that
can never be recovered. Makes me sad. -
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class distinctions
by teejay ina question and then i will allow the reader to reflect or respond.
i do not expect to respond to any posts here.. are there class distinctions on jw.com?.
if so, should those of the "high class" be allowed to run roughshod over the feelings of those deemed "low class at will?".
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teejay
Suzis Ghost
[cool name, btw.]
The answer to question 1, is yes, as you've stated. The answer to the second one: depends on which rung of the pecking order you stand on … Ultimately it isn't the pecking order so much as who's getting pecked to death at a given time.
I hadn't thought of that. You may be on to something. Regardless of the class, the folks on top probably don't see the big deal. That goes a long way to explaining a lot of things around here.
Education is yet another class distinction. Many people are under-educated (including me) and at the same time insecure, a bad combination when ideas are being bandied about -- easy to get one's shorts in a bind at times like those. On the other hand, some educated people bash others over the head with it and feelings of self-importance get way out of whack. (now where have I seen that?) Education is a sensitive issue for some people. I can understand.
peace,
todd -
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how many window cleaners are there here ?
by josephus injust a question that occured to me.. how many of you are or have gotten by by cleaning windows ?.
i still am.. so any answers will be interesting.. thanks.
josephus
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teejay
one of these days im going to climb a bell tower and throw squeegees at people
Man that's funny! I cleaned windows for about seven years before hiring on at my present illustrious occupation. Was damn good at it, too. I can still swing a squeegee if I have to. Like riding a bike...
Good laugh, Josephus.
peace