Posts by scratchme1010

12

I Found Something Better Than "The Truth"!

by Divergent in

jw
friends

i often come across jw's using the "worldwide brotherhood" as one of the reasons to justify that jw's have "the truth.

" such a brotherhood, they claim, would not exist outside the organisation because there is no way that people of different religions, nationalities, races, cultures, backgrounds, languages etc.

can be united and associate together freely without "the truth!".

scratchme1010

I find interesting that many JWs use their faulty reasoning to stay in their "truth" without daring to look inside themselves about how they feel. If you noticed, Divergent, in your post (at least what I got), not only you uncovered a way in which JWs manipulate people to not look around for better ways of uniting with other people, but also you find that there's a way to have a sense of community in a diverse group of people without any of them believing or behaving in the exact same way.

8

Can any deity be used in manipulation?

by schnell in

pale.emperor made an interesting observation in another thread:.

the "blocking an expression of gods love" crap is a sneaky tactic to make the shunner not feel like they're doing something evil.

cults do that.

scratchme1010

What I'm really getting at is this: The idea of a god -- any god -- creates an opportunity for power over a group of people. So, belief in a god tends to become organized, and then it's all quite political and manipulative from there.

Not only that, but I can easily add that it's not limited to a diety at all. There are cults that use the same tactics and what they are based is on recovery from drugs and alcohol. There are other ways of using the same tactics, using political causes or self-help, for example, that can harm as much as using a god or diety.

19

My gay friend went back to JWs?

by schnell in

one of my best friends was disfellowshipped several years ago, and word quickly got around that it was because he's gay.

we lost touch after that because of the disfellowshipping, but since i'm out now, i just found him online and got back in touch with him.

it was a great conversation, but he said he returned to jehovah.

scratchme1010

I guess that any single person who's a member of the JW's is expected to remain celibate, hetero or gay.

True, however, gay people are not accounted for anything else. What i mean is that all the rules are made to make it easier for heterosexual men remain celibate (men preach with men, women preach with women, etc). In that respect there is a lot of lack of acknowledgment about gay people's existence, or maybe it's done on purpose. Who knows?

Either way, sexual orientation has nothing to do with why people want to return to being a JW as they are not the only ones who do. It's about people not seeing the negative influence the WT has on them even after they leave.

19

My gay friend went back to JWs?

by schnell in

one of my best friends was disfellowshipped several years ago, and word quickly got around that it was because he's gay.

we lost touch after that because of the disfellowshipping, but since i'm out now, i just found him online and got back in touch with him.

it was a great conversation, but he said he returned to jehovah.

scratchme1010

Something that may explain that is that many of us tend to forget an important thing. The WT and other cults teach many things about what/how people must live their lives. But that's only one part of what they do.

In order for these controlling groups to maintain control over their people, they also give messages about how horrible their lives will be if they leave, and how horrible life is outside of their place. The brainwashing is not only about what they should do and be when they are in, but also about how terrible and empty their lives are supposed to become out there in "the world".

Look at how many ridiculous things they say about the world outside, and how everything that happens in the world is supposed to be bad, not worthy or deserving of destruction.

When a person leaves, that's what they fear they will be facing, and if they don't know how to deal with being made believe that the world out there is horrible, the very moment when something challenging happens to them, they may feel that the nonsense they were taught was right.

Some people don't have the emotional strength to deal with life challenges. That's why some join the JWs in the first place. So the moment they have a bad experience, I can see how the WT will look attractive to them.

That goes beyond people's sexual orientation.

8

Suicides in the JWs

by Disassociated Lady 2 in

during my time in the jws there was a friend i had known since i was a small child.

he was an elder's son and around my age.

he would often instigate the game of "tag" after the meetings.

scratchme1010

The eye opener for me was realizing that those people have no knowledge and no interest in anything that has to do with mental health.

That organization has no policies, no training, no knowledge, and no interest in dealing with problems that people have, other than the ones that may hinder their making money. They can't care less about how people feel. Growing up I saw so many people who had all kinds of mental health issues, the most common being eating disorders. Food is the only pleasurable thing that is allowed and not regulated by them.

I'm not surprised that people commit suicide and still their loved ones keep going to them for comfort. if that's not a sign of brainwashing, I don't know what is.

10

Pornography Question

by IMHO in

jw
friends

why is it ok to look at naked pictures/videos of your wife/husband but porn if you look at another man/woman naked?.

if you happen to divorce your spouse is it then pornography if you look at naked/sex videos/pictures of them?.

scratchme1010

The way I see it, who the eff are they to tell me what to look at? I can do with my eyes whatever the eff I want.

13

Sex & Divorce

by IMHO in

jw
friends

1. you can't have sex until your married.. 2. you're not married until you've gone through a legal ceremony.. 3. you get 'unscriptually' (although legally) divorced therefore not 'free' to remarry'.

4. can you still 'scriptually' have sex with your former spouse?.

scratchme1010

The way I see it, who the eff are they to get into my personal business. What I do with my --- is my effing business.

12

1 Step Forward and 3 Steps Back: Trying to Get My Mom to See 'The Light' (Oh the Irony!)

by Sorry in

recently, my mother's been hounding me to do personal study (i think she's slowly realizing i'm becoming disillusioned with the organization and is trying to reign me back in).

i don't know what made me do this, but i decided to test the waters by challenging 'new light'.

she asked me what i learned in personal study, so i brought up organ transplants and the wt flip floppy stance on them (thanks jwfacts!).

scratchme1010

It's not easy to hold the unpopular opinion. But something that I could suggest if this happens again is to just remove yourself from a situation like that (if it happens again).

First, it's difficult having your entire family ganged up on you for your difference in believes. Trust me I lived that s-it all my life with my effed-up JW family. Not once I saw anything good coming out of a situation like that, and chances are that it's very difficult to deal with it, especially since those are people you live with every day. Handle them all at once like I did at some point, but only when I was in a position of complete independence from them. Some family members just don't drop it, so avoid that situation; it's not going to bear anything positive.

Also, please consider what seems to be the thing people in this forum tend to forget about the most: their feelings. Forget about doctrine, forget about the new light nonsense, forget about them changing their minds and wanting to be right all the time about everything. Think about them all, collectively, as a family, having to admit that you are right, and that the organization they rely on and trust is just top notch BS. Under those circumstances, admitting that you are right, or having some kind of awakening is just not going to happen. It's not productive at all under those circumstances, especially if you pay attention at what they feel, and the emotions that are implied with them all being wrong for so long about so many things, after making so many important life decisions around it. It's not just about what the WT teaches. It's also about how they are told by them how they are supposed to feel about themselves and the world around them. That is the fundamental cause of the cognitive dissonance that you saw happening (your sister jumping in to tell you how that organization is "the true religion" out of something completely unrelated to what you were discussing). Their feelings, not their knowledge, is what causes them to do that.

Second, I think that you yourself are in a place where you need to take care of you, and only you. I think that you should prioritize in what you are learning, but also in what you are feeling. As clear as you see it, and as full of s-it that the WT teachings are, I think that you may need some time yourself to deal with your own relationship with the WT and how your awakening impacts you, your life, and consequently, your relationship with your family.

There are a number of emotional battles ahead if you want to remain a JW (for now) at the same time that you realize all the BS that they try to shove down your throat. That should have priority over trying to make them see the light. In this instance you were shamed, shut down and made feel as if you are doing something wrong, which you are not. And the fact that they were the ones ending the conversation reinforces their feeling right and superior. In their minds they "won". Take care of yourself first.

Third, you do not need to bring the subject up yourself. You can move on and flip the story from "I have to show you how full of --it the WT teachings are", to "I'm moving on and if you want to know why, ask me, but don't bother me with your JW nonsense". The first story sets you of to be victimized by their JW attacks. The second give you the control over your new believes, and to the fact that you really believe what you believe and there's no need to prove it to them. They will react a lot better (for you) to the second story than to the first one. Once they see that you mean business, they may attempt all kinds of passive/aggressive moves, but eventually will see that you mean business and leave you along. Then is when they might become interested in what you have to say.

19

My gay friend went back to JWs?

by schnell in

one of my best friends was disfellowshipped several years ago, and word quickly got around that it was because he's gay.

we lost touch after that because of the disfellowshipping, but since i'm out now, i just found him online and got back in touch with him.

it was a great conversation, but he said he returned to jehovah.

scratchme1010

One of my best friends was disfellowshipped several years ago, and word quickly got around that it was because he's gay. We lost touch after that because of the disfellowshipping, but since I'm out now, I just found him online and got back in touch with him. It was a great conversation, but he said he returned to Jehovah.
I don't understand. I know several gay friends who grew up in the truth, and this makes two who are still believers. I have another friend who married her partner, and is still happily married, still goes to memorials and conventions and some meetings despite the homophobia, and worries about what she'll say to God in the end. I don't get it.
Well, the conversation went great and we're mutually respectful, but he knows I'm inactive. I wish him the best, and I hope he's happy whatever happens.

Not the first. Honestly, as a gay man myself, I don't see his going back in spite of being gay any different than going back for any other reason. There are a number of people who return to get reinstated for a variety of reasons, and to me they all fall in the same category, and ultimately, it's the exact same effect.

In his case he may have issues with his sexuality, but so do many others of other sexual orientations.

It's a very sad pathetic move to go back to the JWs. It's just sad to see that in anyone.

20

Is this a sign then, should I lol?

by Alostpuppydog in

so the elder (who was my teacher) has informed the rest of the congregation and has now revolked my enterance into their or any hall.

and so now they are looking into getting a restraining order and have called new york and that's what they have decided to do.

just because i was made to feel so depressed and hated that i was thinking of suicide.

scratchme1010

hours ago

So the elder (who was my teacher) has informed the rest of the congregation and has now revolked my Enterance into their or any Hall. And so now they are looking into getting a restraining order and have called New York and that's what they have decided to do. Just because I was made to feel so depressed and hated that I was thinking of suicide. And I guess they took it as me making a threat against them? So anyone got any advice on this? By the way I thank you for this communities' advice on the last thing I posted. So now this is my third post!

Take care of yourself, take your meds, get counseling, leave the JWs alone while you take care of yourself. As angry as you may feel, and as unfair as it may sound, maybe the message is that you may need to concentrate in your treatment and getting help.

You may not be a threat to them, but you may just want to make sure that you take care of things like suicidal thoughts. The people in the congregation have no training or maybe not even knowledge on how to help you. Get the help you need first, then try again after.