Posts by EasyPrompt

16

Is Disfellowshipping properly legislated?

by Rattigan350 in

in the insight book under expelling, it refers to 1 cor 5 and titus 3 and 2 thess 3 as the basis for disfellowshipping.they've often said that the governing body was stated in acts 15 of the apostles and older men.

however, why was there no decree or letter issued by the governing body or apostles and older men and sent out to the congregations, detailing the principles of disfellowshipping?

it is all paul.

EasyPrompt

@Vanderhoven7 - Thank you for welcoming me!🙂

"To Get A Bead On (Someone or Something) - To aim at someone or something with the sights on..."

Imagine how much more so Jesus "has a bead on" those GB guys! His fiery eyes are focused on all those who misrepresent God, and at the appointed time he will remove those GB fakers from their earthly thrones.

"I turned to see who was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands someone like a son of man, clothed in a garment that reached down to the feet and wearing a golden sash around his chest. Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame, and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp, long, two-edged sword was protruding, and his countenance was like the sun when it shines at its brightest." (Revelation 1:12-16)

"And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder: “Come!” And I saw, and look! a white horse, and the one seated on it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went out conquering and to complete his conquest." (Revelation 6:1,2)

Yikes, I wouldn't want to be in the GB's shoes! Jesus is coming, and he will legislate how his body the Christian congregation should be functioning instead of these naughty GB guys. That bogus disfellowshipping doctrine business will be removed. Just like Jannes and Jambres were eventually shown up to be frauds, so these GB guys will be completely exposed.

"Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men." (2 Timothy 3:8,9)

16

Is Disfellowshipping properly legislated?

by Rattigan350 in

in the insight book under expelling, it refers to 1 cor 5 and titus 3 and 2 thess 3 as the basis for disfellowshipping.they've often said that the governing body was stated in acts 15 of the apostles and older men.

however, why was there no decree or letter issued by the governing body or apostles and older men and sent out to the congregations, detailing the principles of disfellowshipping?

it is all paul.

EasyPrompt

"Why is the Faithful Slave deleting shunning videos? Could Russia and Norway be influencing?"

A. The "Faithful Slave" (aka GB) isn't faithful to Jesus.

B. The "Faithful Slave" (aka GB) isn't a slave to Jesus.

C. The "Faithful Slave" (aka GB) is faithful to someone/something other than Jesus.

D. The "Faithful Slave" (aka GB) is a slave to someone/something other than Jesus.

E. Jesus' words "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave" is actually just an illustration for all Christians about keeping on the watch.

F. All of the above.

If the GB/FDS were faithfully slaving for Jesus, then they would be shepherding the little sheep instead of driving them away.

"Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave." (Galatians 1:10)

The GB causes divisions by means of their disfellowshipping doctrine.

"Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattering speech they seduce the hearts of unsuspecting ones." (Romans 16:17,18)

The GB wants to be called "Faithful Slave" but Jesus said not to have such titles.

"But he said to them: “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. You, though, are not to be that way." (Luke 22:25,26)

"“Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?” Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God." (Mark 10:17,18)

"They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted." (Matthew 23:6-12)

The GB fits the description of the disobedient Pharisees, about whom Jesus said "Woe!" because they are hypocrites, they prevent others from learning about God by means of their disregarding the more important things, they are full of disgusting things.

The GB/FDS are part of the apostate lawless ones spoken of at 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4...

"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."

Here's a question: "When will the GB/FDS be deleted?"

"Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (1 Thessalonians 5:3)

12

Watchtower And Taxes

by Bangalore in

*** w94 11/15 pp.

"in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

" so said 18th-century american statesman and inventor benjamin franklin.

EasyPrompt

I worked my ass off in the printery, worked double shifts during summer convention releases, did endless days as the night guard, got up at 3 am in the mornings for kitchen duty, and traveled to and fro 7 miles to my assigned congregation meetings. When you say housing, I shared a small room with 2 other boys, with no privacy, and ate out of a pre-decided menu. The allowance that I received barely covered my travel expenses and my mother had to send money to me every now and then."

@Drearyweather...

I did not mean to offend you. It's not your fault that those "taking the lead" at Bethel disobeyed Jehovah's Word. They used you as a slave - by your own words, you describe slavery. Unpaid, slaving away, small living quarters...etc.

God says "whatever you are doing, do it whole-souled as to Jehovah" and surely your efforts were appreciated by Jehovah because He knew what your motives were. He also knew which of those guys "taking the lead" were purposely twisting the scriptures in order to take advantage of your freely provided labor. Jesus is a fair judge, and he will make a fair accounting.

16

Is Disfellowshipping properly legislated?

by Rattigan350 in

in the insight book under expelling, it refers to 1 cor 5 and titus 3 and 2 thess 3 as the basis for disfellowshipping.they've often said that the governing body was stated in acts 15 of the apostles and older men.

however, why was there no decree or letter issued by the governing body or apostles and older men and sent out to the congregations, detailing the principles of disfellowshipping?

it is all paul.

EasyPrompt

When speaking to the Corinthians, Paul was appealing to their common sense and thinking ability, principles all Christians are expected to live by.

Paul did not tell the Corinthians to set up a "judicial committee" with three men in a "back room". He told the entire congregation to "think".

Jesus did something similar in the account at Matthew 12:11,12...

"He said to them: “If you have one sheep and that sheep falls into a pit on the Sabbath, is there a man among you who will not grab hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.”"

Can you imagine Jesus at a KH, a person walks in and Jesus greets the person, but then an elder runs over and says "No, Jesus, don't greet that person, they're disfellowshipped and it hasn't been a year yet so we can't talk to them."

Jesus died for "that person" in the KH who everybody avoids like the plague because some committee of imperfect men unscripturally labeled "that person" as "disfellowshipped". Jesus would not shun "that person". It's the Pharisees who shunned people.

Jesus greeted people. He ate with people. Jesus died for "that person" who is labeled "disfellowshipped" in the KH that everybody ignores because the three-person-committee decided not to "reinstate" yet. Jesus' blood is enough for us to talk to the person.

Jesus does not approve of the disfellowshipping doctrine as it is currently practiced. The disfellowshipping doctrine is antichrist. Jesus hates it and he is going to tear it down when he gets here soon. All those Pharisee GB and any Pharisee elders will be completely exposed too. (2 Peter 3:10; Isaiah 28:17; Revelation 8:7)

16

Is Disfellowshipping properly legislated?

by Rattigan350 in

in the insight book under expelling, it refers to 1 cor 5 and titus 3 and 2 thess 3 as the basis for disfellowshipping.they've often said that the governing body was stated in acts 15 of the apostles and older men.

however, why was there no decree or letter issued by the governing body or apostles and older men and sent out to the congregations, detailing the principles of disfellowshipping?

it is all paul.

EasyPrompt

"...a question of whether the JW shunning practice is defensible from a Biblical standpoint."

What Does the Bible Really Teach?

"But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside..." (1 Corinthians 5:11,12)

In context, Paul was talking about a situation that everybody in the congregation knew about. "Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with his father’s wife." Paul was not judging the man as if Paul was on some judicial hearing. Paul said that it was as if he was there in spirit, in other words, if Paul was there, he'd not associate with that guy for worship activities, because it was obvious the guy was a faker, pretending to be all "holy" meanwhile sleeping around with his dad's wife! Paul wasn't setting up some kind of "judicial process" with "elders". He told the entire congregation, "The Corinthians", to wake up and realize you can't pretend to be pleasing God if you're doing something that even the rest of the world finds to be shockingly disgusting. No "judicial committee" was necessary.

When it said "do you not judge those inside" Paul wasn't talking to a committee of three elders or some kind of clergy class. He was talking to the whole congregation, telling them to use common sense. First Corinthians 5 in context is also talking about not "eating" with the man at the Lord's Evening Meal. It was talking about not worshipping with him until he stopped sleeping around with his dad's wife. Everybody knew when the guy stopped living with her, and they welcomed the guy back for worship at that time. It wasn't some kind of "three elders in the back room" judgment. (Just a side note, but even in ancient Israel the judgments took place in the city gate for everyone to look on - it wasn't in a secret back room.)

Here's another verse the JW shunners try to misapply to support their disfellowshipping doctrine...

"Look out for yourselves, so that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward. Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." (2 John 8-11)

Other translations sometimes say "do not wish godspeed" to such a person, in other words, don't be telling someone "good job" when they are being naughty. What kind of "naughty" was John talking about? He wasn't talking about the same topic as Paul was. He wasn't talking about some kind of judicial punishment for adulterers and fornicators. In context, John had just been talking about those who were teaching false doctrines and were deceiving others in the congregation as false teachers.

Today the governing body teaches the 1914 doctrine and they also say that the heavenly resurrection has already taken place. Both of those doctrines are false teachings. According to John's words here, when "brothers" give a talk about "the kingdom came in 1914" or "the heavenly resurrection started after 1914" then people shouldn't say "good job!" and commend them in their bad deceptive teachings.

As regards false teachers like the governing body, here are some more words Paul said:

"But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them. These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some." (2 Timothy 2:16-18)

When the governing body teaches that the kingdom already started and that some of the anointed are already ruling as kings, the governing body is attempting to gain clout and power so they can also rule as kings on earth right now. Jesus is not pleased with them. But that is for another topic...

What kind of example did Jesus set as regards his interactions with people? Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners. He talked with prostitutes and demon possessed individuals. He even talked to the Devil. Jesus didn't shun people. He said if someone repented up to 77 times a day to forgive them that day, not to wait for some year long repentance to be measured by a committee of three imperfect men in a back room somewhere.

It was the Pharisees who adopted the Greek philosophy of ostracism and meshed it with their way of twisting scripture. In the first century, apostasy infiltrated the congregation and the Didache advised a similar process to the modern Pharisaical disfellowshipping doctrine. Jesus said to beware such leaven of the scribes and Pharisees, and told us that it would ferment the whole lump, or congregation, as we see today.

God is Love, and anyone who does not love his brother cannot love God. Shunning in the way of the disfellowshipping doctrine is not loving or scriptural, it is antichrist and an apostasy from what the Bible really teaches.

12

Watchtower And Taxes

by Bangalore in

*** w94 11/15 pp.

"in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.

" so said 18th-century american statesman and inventor benjamin franklin.

EasyPrompt

Not surprising WTBT$ would disobey Jesus' command to pay back Caesar's things to Caesar. The entire Bethel arrangement is in opposition to the scriptural counsel of Paul at 2 Thessalonians 3:10-15...

"In fact, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.” For we hear that some are walking disorderly among you, not working at all, but meddling with what does not concern them. To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn. For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed. And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."

Those at Bethel (and the COs) don't work secularly for their food and housing. Instead they live off others' incomes, people who pay taxes. Paul said that anyone able-bodied who wants to live off others' incomes should be marked and not associated with. According to the Bible counsel, everyone at Bethel and the COs are "bad association"!

Verses 6-9 say: "Now we are giving you instructions, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother who is walking disorderly and not according to the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you should imitate us, because we did not behave in a disorderly way among you, nor did we eat anyone’s food free. On the contrary, by labor and toil we were working night and day so as not to impose an expensive burden on any one of you. Not that we do not have authority, but we wanted to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate."

The "tradition" Paul set was to work for his own food/rooming and pay taxes. The Bethel arrangement is "disorderly" because it opposes the instructions given in the name of Christ.

2

Why does a loving God need to settle moral issues with the Devil?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

bible teachings.

bible questions answered.

why did god allow the holocaust?.

EasyPrompt

The Devil is already as good as dead. It's not for the Devil's sake that God is allowing certain issues to play out. It's for our sake, for the sake of the living, for the sake of those who will live forever.

The Devil has already been judged. God is not "settling moral issues" with the Devil.

When a woman is pregnant, it's not time for the baby to come out into the world until the nine months is completed. The child in the womb doesn't understand all the details of the whys and the wherefores. Similarly, we don't understand everything about the timing of things today. We'll learn more of the details later.

We do know enough. Jehovah God is trustworthy and His ways are always right.

Negative five million is a very negative number. The absolute value, or modulus, of negative five million is positive five million. If a math student can change a huge negative to a huge positive, how much more so can the Creator of the Universe?

"Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?"

"Looking straight at them, Jesus said: “With men it is impossible but not so with God, for all things are possible with God.”"

36

Treatment of Those Trying For Reinstatement

by Vanderhoven7 in

what happens when a jehovah’s witness who has been disfellowshipped returns to attending the meetings again?.

mark jones writes:.

if it's the same congregation that they previously attended then, yes, the congregation will remember who they are and so continue to treat them as dead or invisible.. one of the identifying marks a cult is that it uses shame and humiliation to control members, to keep them from leaving and manipulating those who escaped into coming back.. a disfellowshipped person is never allowed to quietly leave with dignity.

EasyPrompt

The way the disfellowshipping doctrine is practiced by the JW organization is completely antichrist. Jesus said "if your brother repents and comes and asks forgiveness 77 times a day" to forgive him that day.

The disfellowshipping doctrine brings intense reproach on Jehovah's holy name. When Jesus receives the kingdom in heaven, he will allow the nations to be used as the instrument to discipline all religious institutions, and it will start with the Jehovah's Witnesses losing all their Bethels and real estate and financial holdings.

Jesus cleaned out the place bearing God's name in the past. Jehovah allowed the nations to be used as the instrument of discipline in the past on His name people. The WTBT$ will be torn down with permission from Jehovah. "Not a stone left upon a stone."

Then all the precious sheep that have been tossed aside or inappropriately "shunned" will be gathered in. (Ezekiel 34) Jehovah and Jesus will get rid of that horrid disfellowshipping doctrine forever.

39

Only baptised JWs will make it?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

i think it was a john cedars video or someone else’s where the point was brought up that only baptised jws will be saved?

then one talk about kids of baptised jws hope they will make it but even them don’t know.

most jws probably think that some good people who are not baptised may make it through, but this is not official teaching?.

EasyPrompt

It's funny that the Watchtower uses that "Ezekiel 9:4 mark" reasoning (or should I say "non-reasoning.") Ezekiel 9:4 doesn't say anything about baptism. It says: "Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”"

"The city" was where Jehovah's Name People claimed to be worshipping Jehovah acceptably and yet they were doing all kinds of not-cool stuff, as described in context in Ezekiel chapter 8. Today, many people who claim to be "Jehovah's Witnesses" believe false doctrines (like the 1914 thing and the disfellowshipping-by-3-men-in-a-backroom-thing) and worship "idols" (like COs and "Elders" and GB/FDS) and other non-scriptural shenanigans (CSA mishandling, Bethel commune, etc). "The mark on the forehead" isn't baptism. It is on "those sighing and groaning over the detestable things done in the city". It is marking who has a conscience that works and feels the "cognitive dissonance" from the mixed up nonsense going on by many of those who claim to be worshipping God acceptably.

In context, Ezekiel 9 wasn't talking about Armageddon. Ezekiel chapter 9 is talking about the destruction of false religion, specifically, about those within the "God's Name People" organization. Ezekiel chapter 9 wasn't talking about "Babylon the Great" or about "The Nations". It was talking about people who claimed to know and serve Jehovah.

Jesus also talked about a time he would remove false worshippers from the congregation. When Jesus talked about "the wheat and the weeds" and other such illustrations, he was talking about cleaning up the Christian congregation after he takes the throne in heaven. He didn't take the throne in 1914 and it's clear he hasn't cleaned up the Christian congregation yet.

The vision at Ezekiel 9 describes a similar scenario to what Jesus described at Matthew 13:41..."The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness..." which is a future event for which baptism is not described as the necessary characteristic for survival. Jehovah hasn't changed. Just like being outwardly labeled as part of God's Name People in the past didn't guarantee survival during the destruction of Jerusalem, so today, just being baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses isn't going to "save" anybody from the destruction of false religion if that person loves practices that God hates, like worshipping a GB/FDS, like extreme shunning of people who have been redeemed by the ransom blood, or like covering up CSA to protect the image of an organization rather than comfort victims of abuse. Jesus will be the judge.

Being baptized is important, but the Ezekiel 9:4 thing isn't talking about baptism at all, or Armageddon. It's talking about the destruction of false religious institutions, like what will happen at the beginning of the great tribulation. Ezekiel 9:6 says ""You should start from my sanctuary.” So they started with the elders who were in front of the house." Today, Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be God's Name People, thus the destruction "starting with the sanctuary" and "the elders who were in front of the house" would be starting with the governing body at Bethel.

The destruction of religious institutions is only the beginning part of the great tribulation. There were many non-Israelites who were saved from Egypt after the plagues on false religion. The Bible shows there will be a great crowd of non-Jehovah's Witnesses saved through the tribulation and Armageddon.

"Jehovah knows those who belong to him." Abraham wasn't baptized, and he was Jehovah's friend. Jehovah will do the right thing. He always has.

33

"How Long Would Jesus' Reign Be?"

by BoogerMan in

simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .

a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.

b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.

EasyPrompt

Jesus said "no man knows the day or the hour" the Kingdom would begin in heaven.

If "the 1914 thing" could have been calculated by some verses in Second Kings and Ezekiel and Daniel, then Jesus could have calculated it back in the first century and he wouldn't have said "no one knows the day and the hour." He would have known the kingdom would begin in "1914" while he was walking the earth. Second Kings and Ezekiel and Daniel were already written then, and Jesus had a perfect mind. Jesus did not begin ruling in the Kingdom "in 1914". The start date can't be calculated using the Bible. Jesus told the disciples to stop trying to figure out "the times and seasons that belong in the Father's jurisdiction."

He did tell John about a time frame involving 3 1/2 years.

Revelation shows that after Jesus takes the throne the Devil will be kicked out of heaven, and the time of tribulation on earth will be 3 1/2 years. During that 3 1/2 years, aka "the times of the nations" or when the UN is the dominant world power, Jesus will be ruling in heaven. At the end of the 3 1/2 years, the Devil will be abyssed, and that is when the 1,000 year reign begins. Jesus will be visible at that time. Everybody will see him. Obviously that hasn't happened yet. But as far as the original thread question: "How long would Jesus' reign be?" ...the Bible says 1000 years plus 3 1/2 years. That's how long Jesus' reign will be until he turns the kingdom back over to his Father.

(But since they work together, even after that point "there will be no end to his kingdom".)