According to the congregation elders, if you report abuse by an elder and when the elders don't do anything to remedy the situation you keep talking about it to protect others from harm, you are causing divisions. If you warn other publishers about an abusive elder, you are causing divisions. If you ask other publishers for help to protect you or your children from an abusive elder who is actively attempting to access your children, you are causing divisions. If you report your husband to the police for domestic abuse and you ask the congregation to help you in your situation, you are causing divisions. If you don't shut up about what they want you to shut up about, you will be disfellowshipped for causing divisions, because telling on abuse is "disruptive to the unity of the congregation" and "may involve or lead to apostasy".
EasyPrompt
JoinedPosts by EasyPrompt
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35
Help wanted finding images
by Lee Marsh ini am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.
they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.
i know there are images of the structure of the wts.
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35
Help wanted finding images
by Lee Marsh ini am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.
they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.
i know there are images of the structure of the wts.
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EasyPrompt
(These excerpts do not specifically use the word "submission" or "subjection" but it is implied that a person who is not in "submission" or "subjection" is an "apostate" or being "brazen" and can be disfellowshipped for not conforming to the direction from the organization.)
The 1980 letter to circuit overseers about "apostates" says to disfellowship those who are not in subjection to what the GB/FDS teaches...it says "Keep in mind to be disfellowshipped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views..."standing away from"...Therefore, if a baptized Christian abandons the teachings...as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in believing other doctrine...then he is apostatizing...rejects what he has been provided through the slave class, then appropriate judicial action should be taken."
1980 Letter to circuit overseers about apostates...
https://files.accessjw.org/s/QkEpDaBMN6EdkZJ
2023 edition of "Shepherd the Flock of God" Elder's book under "Determining Whether A Judicial Committee Should Be Formed" Chapter 12 point 17, subpoint 1, not being in subjection/submission regarding the elders' direction regarding associating with other disfellowshipped ones is considered "brazen conduct" and a disfellowshipping offense; also under that point 17, subpoint 2, a person who dates without permission could be disfellowshipped for "brazen conduct"...
https://files.accessjw.org/s/NSCySFCnaSiE2A5
Also in that publication, same Chapter 12 point 39 subpoint 4, not agreeing with what is published by organization is labeled "apostasy" or "causing divisions" and is a disfellowshipping offense...
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How to Legally Dissolve a Religious Organization
by EasyPrompt inregarding the state dissolving a church organization.... .
as posted in another thread, here is what is happening in japan, filing a court order to dissolve the unification church.... .
https://www.eurasiareview.com/06092023-japan-seeks-court-order-to-dissolve-unification-church/.
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EasyPrompt
I love reading how "The Message" Bible translation does that chapter of Matthew 23! I also like how that translation reads when Jesus is giving the what-for to the naughty religious hypocrites in the congregations as recorded in Revelation 2 and 3. The teaching of disfellowshipping is a lot like what Jezebel did - she would mislabel someone as worthy of death and then the elders followed through with the execution. Jesus' words to the "Jezebels" in the congregation (meaning any person, whether man or woman, who misuses their authority in order to hurt others) make me think of how Jesus feels about those authors and backers of the twisted disfellowshipping doctrine, and also those who permit abuse in the flock and protect the abusers rather than the sheep, and those who promote idolatry of men/GB/elders/pioneers/whatever. Here is what it says in Revelation 2:18-25...
"Write this to Thyatira, to the Angel of the church. God’s Son, eyes pouring fire-blaze, standing on feet of furnace-fired bronze, says this:
“I see everything you’re doing for me. Impressive! The love and the faith, the service and persistence. Yes, very impressive! You get better at it every day.
“But why do you let that Jezebel who calls herself a prophet mislead my dear servants into Cross-denying, self-indulging religion? I gave her a chance to change her ways, but she has no intention of giving up a career in the god-business. I’m about to lay her low, along with her partners, as they play their sex-and-religion games. The bastard offspring of their idol-whoring I’ll kill. Then every church will know that appearances don’t impress me. I x-ray every motive and make sure you get what’s coming to you.
“The rest of you Thyatirans, who have nothing to do with this outrage, who scorn this playing around with the Devil that gets paraded as profundity, be assured I’ll not make life any harder for you than it already is. Hold on to the truth you have until I get there."
The Bethel arrangement, the WTBT$/GB/FD$, it's all part of "the bastard offspring of their idol-whoring" that Jesus says he will figuratively "kill" when he gets here.
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How to Legally Dissolve a Religious Organization
by EasyPrompt inregarding the state dissolving a church organization.... .
as posted in another thread, here is what is happening in japan, filing a court order to dissolve the unification church.... .
https://www.eurasiareview.com/06092023-japan-seeks-court-order-to-dissolve-unification-church/.
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EasyPrompt
You know what Jesus was like. He hated all that religious hypocrisy. Remember how mad he got at those dudes in the temple taking advantage of people? Remember how he called the religious frauds "snakes" and "sons of the Devil"? And how frustrated he got when they were so dumb and giving people a hard time about getting healed on the Sabbath?
Remember how Jehovah kept warning His people in the past when they became religious hypocrites, they crushed the people instead of protecting them - he kept warning them and warning them - but they wouldn't listen, and finally He sent the Babylonians to tear down the temple? Or later on the second time, when He sent the Romans to tear down the temple?
Jehovah hasn't changed. Jesus hasn't changed. They will allow the nations to tear down all the fake religious stuff again, except on a larger scale. It's the lowly ones, the ones looked down on by the Pharisees, the "tax collectors and prostitutes" that ended up being closer to Jesus and God in the end back then, because at least they were honest.
When people in our day become atheists because of all the religious hypocrisy, Jehovah understands.
"unprovable--unless it happens."
WTBT$ says I'm no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. They are wrong about a lot of things. I am a witness of Jehovah. The things I share about the downfall of the WTBT$ are written in His Word. And His Word always comes true.
This is September. Every September has a beginning and an end. In the same way, the WTBT$ had a beginning, and it will have an end, because if God didn't step in to remove the hypocritical religious institutions then the innocent would never last. The end of WTBT$ will happen soon, because it is prophesied in God's Word.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odd2xE0_5tk
🙂🫶
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28
The pushing berween the K of N and K of S
by Kosonen inthe brics summit was big this year.
new member states were added.
interesting that they call themselves the global south.
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EasyPrompt
Kosonen's gifts include having a heart of gold, endurance under extremely difficult circumstances, and the mildness that belongs to wisdom. There is a lot I can learn from him about those things.
"And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."
He is teaching me about these things by his example in brotherly love, for which I am very thankful. To me, that is not worthless - it is priceless.💖
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28
The pushing berween the K of N and K of S
by Kosonen inthe brics summit was big this year.
new member states were added.
interesting that they call themselves the global south.
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EasyPrompt
"What am I saying? I mean to suggest that historicizing interpretations lead nowhere - they are more a manifestation of exegetical arbitrariness, often unwittingly taken in large part from Hyppolytus of Rome in particular."
@PetrW, when Daniel recorded the angel's words, for instance that one beast stood for the king of Greece or that another one stood for a certain king, Daniel wasn't making historicized interpretations that lead to nowhere. The angel certainly wasn't manifesting exegetical arbitrariness.
Hippolytus went beyond what is written in the same way the WTBT$ does at times, but the part of what is there that is in harmony with other scriptures (like when the angel clearly says "so-and-so means the king of Greece") or when it's clear there were four generals who inherited Alexander's kingdom, or when "the exactor went through the kingdom" for the census - these things are clear and not "exegetical arbitrariness".
"main thrust of the interpretation in those passages in Daniel and Revelation where it talks about the 10 fingers or 10 horns and the final battles between the 10 horns (Dan 7:24 ff).
All geographical remarks and relationships are symbolic in nature, the meaning of which derives from biblical realities: e.g., Egypt - existed in biblical times, but in eschatology, this symbol plays the role of a competitor to God's people. It is a symbol for an organized, hostile, and murderous system, the same as Sodom (see Rev. 11:8)."
It seems that you are the one here imitating Hippolytus as far as just making stuff up that goes beyond what is in the text. The kings in chapter 11 of Daniel are not figurative of evil or symbolic of something else. The angel was explaining to Daniel about specific world powers. Revelation is in symbols. Daniel 11 is not. The accounts compliment each other.
The visions of Revelation display the UN figuratively as a wild beast that eats up religious institutions. The second half of Daniel chapter 11 describes some of the details about how that works out.
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How to Legally Dissolve a Religious Organization
by EasyPrompt inregarding the state dissolving a church organization.... .
as posted in another thread, here is what is happening in japan, filing a court order to dissolve the unification church.... .
https://www.eurasiareview.com/06092023-japan-seeks-court-order-to-dissolve-unification-church/.
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EasyPrompt
The WTBT$ says he has, but they say a lot of things that aren't in the Bible. They say the Devil was cast down around 1914 or so. The Bible shows that when the Devil is cast down, the great tribulation begins, and that when it begins it's a relatively short period of time he has to cause woe, 3 1/2 years. The Bible also shows that when Jesus is enthroned he'll completely expose all the religious frauds and their jig will be up.
The WTBT$ says they're waiting to hear a cry of "peace and security" but they misunderstand that scripture too. The ones who have instant destruction upon them are the religious leaders who think they have peace and security with God despite their hypocritical shenanigans and misrepresentation of God. The WTBT$ is asleep - they think the Devil was cast out of heaven years ago, they think the Kingdom already came into power years ago, they think someone else will say "peace and security" - they are all mixed up. They have no clue what is coming upon them.
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23
How to Legally Dissolve a Religious Organization
by EasyPrompt inregarding the state dissolving a church organization.... .
as posted in another thread, here is what is happening in japan, filing a court order to dissolve the unification church.... .
https://www.eurasiareview.com/06092023-japan-seeks-court-order-to-dissolve-unification-church/.
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EasyPrompt
"they don’t have to report"
Perhaps the government doesn't require them to report certain things, but God does require we make an accurate accounting.
When the organization presents itself to poor little old ladies or children saving pennies in their piggy banks as if the organization is forwarding that money to help feed starving refugees of a natural disaster or making a braille publication for a blind widow in sub-Saharan Africa, the organization is doing false advertising to its flock.
Jesus said "you are making the House of My Father into a Cave of Robbers!"
@AnonyMous, I can see mixing such shady business practices into worship don't faze you any.
"The activities at our world headquarters, branch offices, and translation offices, as well as the activities of those serving as traveling ministers, are supported by funds donated to our worldwide work.
Nothing about it is fraudulent or criminal"
It is all fraudulent and criminal according to God's Word. Jesus said "you received free, give free" and Paul said able-bodied ministers should work for what they eat and not live off others' incomes. The entire Bethel arrangement, the entire CO arrangement, the cars, the insurance, the administrative costs, they are all fraudulent and criminal when the WTBT$ claims them to be "God's will". The reason the people in the JWBorg donate is because they think it is in harmony with God's will. The Bethel arrangement is antichrist. It is in opposition to what is holy, just like the other clergy arrangements in Christendom that elevate and pay for clergy.
The very idea of having a "non-profit" status in order to avoid paying taxes shows that any "religious" organization seeking such status is fraudulent when they claim to represent God.
God knows they are criminals, even if the government hasn't figured it out yet. Jesus will expose them for what they are. He's done it before. When he takes the throne in heaven, he will clean out the house, first thing. He'll clean the Devil out of heaven, then he'll clean all those devils out of the congregations. All those so-called "religious" organizations claiming "tax-exempt" status for their fraudulent hypocritical religious businesses will be exposed and removed.
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28
The pushing berween the K of N and K of S
by Kosonen inthe brics summit was big this year.
new member states were added.
interesting that they call themselves the global south.
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EasyPrompt
Daniel 11:30-45 parallels Revelation's description of the UN attacking Babylon the Great...
Revelation 17:15-18
"He said to me: “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire. For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth."
It is also paralleled by these other accounts in other chapters of Daniel about the UN attacking religion...
Daniel 7:19-21 "Then I wanted to know more about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others; it was extraordinarily fearsome, with iron teeth and copper claws, and it was devouring and crushing, and trampling down what was left with its feet; and about the ten horns on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth speaking arrogantly and whose appearance was bigger than that of the others. “I kept watching as that horn made war on the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them."
Daniel 7:24,25 "As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings. He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."
Daniel 8:9-12 "Out of one of them came another horn, a small one, and it grew very great toward the south and toward the east and toward the Decoration. It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down. It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success."
Daniel 8:19,23-25 "Then he said: “Here I am causing you to know what will happen in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of the end...And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand."
Daniel 12:7,11 "It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish...“And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days."
And again the attack of the UN on religion is depicted in Revelation 13...
Revelation 13:5-10 "It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones."
The "mark of the beast" means looking to the UN to fix all the world's problems during that time of the 3 1/2 year great tribulation. It means thinking that the nations can solve things instead of God, and acting like the nations can solve things instead of God. Being "marked for survival" means continuing to look to God's Kingdom during the time of the 3 1/2 year great tribulation. It means obeying Christ as King during that time and being willing to put God's commands ahead of the doctrines and commands of men, even if we face captivity or other reproach. "God is Love" and the mark of a true Christian is showing love.
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28
The pushing berween the K of N and K of S
by Kosonen inthe brics summit was big this year.
new member states were added.
interesting that they call themselves the global south.
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EasyPrompt
@PetrW, the verse 27 of Daniel 11 about the "two kings sitting at one table telling lies" cannot be talking about Ptolemy and Cleopatra or about anything during the Maccabees period (which is what the Hippolytus of Rome article you linked seems to imply) because the context of Daniel chapter 11 clearly shows that verse 27 takes place way later than the time Hippolytus describes.
(Just as a reference point, Jesus as Leader of the covenant is "broken" in verse 22. The things in verse 27 happen later than that in the stream of time.)
Hippolytus cannot offer truth, because his writings are just as corrupt as the writings of the WTBT$ governing body. (Have you read the "Apostolic Tradition"? Sounds a like another form of the "Organized to Do God's Will" book or something. A bunch of made-up doctrines of men mixed together with a few scriptures in order to exalt imperfect men in way opposed to the Christ.)
You can't go to old apostates for clarification on scriptures. Hippolytus wrote a lot about Daniel, but he didn't know what he was talking about.