Posts by TheHighPriest

60

Muhammad is my savior!

by d0rkyd00d in

jw
friends

just kidding.

but i need some sort of lead in to my question.

when you are born, you are born into a religion.

TheHighPriest

I have shown you the facts, do you still hold on to your child/human sacrifice accusation?

You wouldn't know what facts are even if it hit you square in the face I'm afraid. I have shown you from the factual scriptures and all you've done is speculate around some of them so that it suits your idea that God is absolutely up in arms over these sacrifices.
Lev.27:2, 10, 28-29
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow ... he shall not alter it, nor change it, a good for a bad, or a bad for a good.... no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast ... shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.

Notice how God demands both man and beast to be put to death if devoted.

2 Sam.21:1, 8-9, 14
Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites.... The king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul ... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD....And after that God was intreated for the land.

In this instance human sacrifice was the way to please God, once hung up God was happy.

Num.31:25-29
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.

Don't forget that once devoted to God he want's 'em dead, lucky for Eleazar he only needed to butcher one in five hundred.

These are the facts and I still hold on to my accustion that God gladly accepts child/human sacrifice's at least in the old testament era.

THP

60

Muhammad is my savior!

by d0rkyd00d in

jw
friends

just kidding.

but i need some sort of lead in to my question.

when you are born, you are born into a religion.

TheHighPriest

Firstly, did God allow children to be sacrificed? In fact, God'S Word speaks against it. That's Japthehs folly. If he knew God's Word he would have certainly not sacrificed his child.
Secondly, is God dependant on sacrifices? Certainly not! It is the faith of the believer that matters. Japtheh showed little faith by making a hasteful vow and he paid the price for saying it. And should we blame God if Japtheh is foolish enough not to refer to God's Word or even to God to resolve his dilemma?

In your first reply you defended his action of sacrificing his daughter by saying he made a promise which he had to keep and you proceeded to show the relevant scripture and said that the issue was "carlessness in making vows.". Now you've turned around and said he doesn't know his scriptures and that's why he carried out the sacrifice, Make up your mind. Just how much of the scriptures does he know? and how do you know that's how much he knows, from the Bible?.
The problem still remains though with the fact that God, who at the time frequently communicated with his people, said nothing to help Jephtah understand that he does not need to sacrifice his daughter and in doing so he accepted the sacrifice of a child.

I don't need your TV, but I do value your friendship. God doesn't need your sacrifice, but He does value your faith in Him.

So does that mean you would accept the TV just as God accepted the sacrifice?

Was Isaac sacrificed? Certainly not! Abraham said "God will provide the sacrifice", and He did by providing the ram (a symbol of Christ's own sacrifice).Are there any accounts of Jews sacrificing children? Or perhaps even today? You're taking Scripture out of context to suit your errorneous claim. Is this fair? You swapped your wife's gold wedding ring and replaced it with a plastic ring, what would your wife say? How can one treat God with such disrespect? Again none of the verses speaks of child sacrifices. Try asking a Jew if they practise child sacrifices. Again Scripture is presented out of context.

Okay now I get it, so long as it is not a question of child sacrifice it is otherwise alright with human sacrifices. The only little blunder being the child of Jephtah but then he made a vow afterall, a promise is a promise no matter what according to holy writ.

Say what you like. The Nazis called Hitler a saint. If though the facts show otherwise the Nazis today still adore him.

It's funny you should say that.

THP

60

Muhammad is my savior!

by d0rkyd00d in

jw
friends

just kidding.

but i need some sort of lead in to my question.

when you are born, you are born into a religion.

TheHighPriest

Me:
The issue here is not the sacrifice of a child, if it were then certainly God would have instructed it to the Jews. But do you see any? Certainly not!

How anyone can turn around and say that the issue is not the sacrifice of a child is beyond me, the fact still remains that God accepted the sacrifice and that is what makes him an appaling character. If I promised you a TV say, and then proceeded to give you a stolen one, you of course, fully aware of the fact that it was to be stolen yet you accept it, What does that make you? Would you explain to everyone that you accepted it because a promise is a promise? I don't think so but then if you are willing to accept human sacrifice on the same principals, who knows.
You ask if I can see God asking for a human sacrifice? the answer is a definate yes.
Gen.22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Ex.22:29
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
Lev.27:2, 10, 28-29
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow ... he shall not alter it, nor change it, a good for a bad, or a bad for a good.... no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast ... shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.
Num.31:25-29
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
2 Sam.21:1, 8-9, 14
Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites.... The king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul ... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD....And after that God was intreated for the land.

1 Kg.13:2
And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.
2 Kg.23:20
And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them.

I still call it a lie and you are indeed promulgating that same lie.

God help you

THP

12

Wanted

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

the new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.

the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.

'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.

TheHighPriest

Thank's for the tip reagan I'll keep an eye out for the book you recomended.

THP

12

Wanted

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

the new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.

the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.

'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.

TheHighPriest

The Bible states that Christ was not of attractive appearance.I`ve
often thought that it probably would have been HARDER to believe had
we have seen him than it is having not seen him.Sight can be quite
an obstacle to faith

I can't help but wonder if the hellenistic world at the time would ever accept Jesus as of divine origen had they known that he was an ugly looking character.

, it is the incredible
uniqueness and agelessness of Christ`s teaching and actions which
make him most appealing.

As MD pointed out you obviously don't know that he is portraid as a carbon copy of many other religions that preceed him by up too thousands of years. Give or take a few changes in history and we might all have been worshipping mithra instead of jesus although our beliefs would have stayed the same the name Jesus wouldn't even have been heard of.

THP

60

Muhammad is my savior!

by d0rkyd00d in

jw
friends

just kidding.

but i need some sort of lead in to my question.

when you are born, you are born into a religion.

TheHighPriest

Savages? While the pagans were sacrificing their children to their gods, the Jews were practising a more civilized sacrifice.

That my friend is a missrepresentation of the truth ie. a lie.
Judges chapter 11 says from verse 30:
30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. {whatsoever…: Heb. that which cometh forth, which shall come forth} {and…: or, or I will offer it, etc
32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.
33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. {the plain: or, Abel}
34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. {beside…: or, he had not of his own either son or daughter: Heb. of himself}
35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows. {go up…: Heb. go and go down}
38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel, {custom: or, ordinance}
40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year. {yearly: Heb. from year to year} {to lament: or, to talk with}

Did you notice how he carried out his vow. This honourable man presents a more civilised sacrifice, yes or no.
I would like to see you deal with this.

THP

12

Wanted

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

the new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.

the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.

'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.

TheHighPriest

The slavonic texts are renown for interpolations on the original and often include strange statements.

I was aware of that and that is why I questioned whether the statement was genuine or not. The reason I think it may well be a true description is as I said because Isaiah 53 say's he would be possibly even more trubled than that. However, that does not take anything away from his accomplishments as MD pointed out, only his looks or rather our perception of what he should look like.
Thanks for pointing that out though.

THP

12

Wanted

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

the new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.

the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.

'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.

TheHighPriest

It may not matter much to you logical but to a lot of people holding him out to be of a more divine nature this description, how shall I put it, does not quite fit the bill.

THP

19

Got My Grades From College!

by Lindy in

jw
friends

i am so proud.

just got my grade today in the mail.

not bad for an old lady who hasn't looked in a school book for a very long time!

TheHighPriest

Way to go Antique,

Great achievement indeed.

Go girl go.

THP

12

Wanted

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

the new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of jesus and that judas was the man that turned him in.. this warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the jews, however this description did not find it's way into the bible.. this seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.. i mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?.

the appearance of jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many jw's (and other christians aswell i'm sure) and i remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.. the one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc.... as i said there is no such description in the bible, however, it was reported by josephus in his "capture of jerusalem".. now, i don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe jh can throw some light on that, but a copy of josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:.

'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'.

TheHighPriest

The new testament states that a warrant was issued for the arrest of Jesus and that Judas was the man that turned him in.
This warrant would have carried a description of the man that called himself the king of the Jews, however this description did not find it's way into the Bible.
This seem's a bit odd in particular since after all it would be interesting to know what the messiah really looked like.
I mean, think about it, if you had the chance to record the events of a man of such importance would you not include a description of his image?
The appearance of Jesus has been a subject of disscusion amongst many JW's (and other christians aswell I'm sure) and I remember many such occassions when the topic was being discussed and needles to say the opinions on this matter differed greatly.
The one opinion however that usually prevailed was that of a strong well built man, after all he was a carpenter etc...
As I said there is no such description in the Bible, however, it was reported by Josephus in his "capture of Jerusalem".
Now, I don't know whether this report is a genuine one or not, maybe JH can throw some light on that, but a copy of Josephus description has survived in slavonic texts and it paints a picture quite at odds with the image many people have painted for themselves:

'...a man of simple appearance, mature age, dark skin, small stature, three cubits high, hunchbacked with a long face, long nose, and meeting eyebrows, so that they who see him might be affrighted, with scanty hair with a parting in the middle of his head, after the manner of the Nazarites, and with an undeveloped beard.'

Holy schmozzle! this sounds more like Quasimodo than Jesus.
Three cubits would put Jesus under four foot six, could this really be accurate?
According to the Acts of John (excluded from the Bible) it say's of Jesus:

'...I was afraid and cried out, and he, turning about, appeared as a man of small stature...'

Luke 19:3 tells about when Zaccheus tried to spot Quasi.. hmm.. Jesus in a crowd but he couldn't because someone was of low stature:

'...And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and he could not for the crowd, because he was of low stature.'

Now whether that was zaccheus or Jesus with a low stature I don't know you have to make up your own mind on that one.
In light of this maybe a reading of Isiah 53 would confirm that Jesus indeed was of the "quasimodo type class", in my own humble opinion he would need to be to fulfill the prophesy.

THP of the higher class