Posts by TheHighPriest

7

Manna, a celestial food?

by TheHighPriest in

this will make most of you guys think that i believe you can find god in a mushroom, that is not exactly true but what if the jews did?

what if that is what the early christians thought?

what if christianity is inspired by drug users?

TheHighPriest

G'night UB,

Moses invented the esky, now there is a truth we simply can't go past.

THP rotflmao

7

Manna, a celestial food?

by TheHighPriest in

this will make most of you guys think that i believe you can find god in a mushroom, that is not exactly true but what if the jews did?

what if that is what the early christians thought?

what if christianity is inspired by drug users?

Thank you for your questions, don't even think that you attacking my post is something I dislike it is infact the opposite. My posts are there to be attacked how else can I find out if I am on the ball or not? Usually people attack me instead of my arguements and I do dislike that. You have put forth some very good questions and I will try to answer them best as I can.

"1. if manna was a bunch of mushrooms, specifically magic mushrooms, how did they sustain the isrealites nutritionally? according to the bible, even when there was other food, it was the manna that was their staple."

I don't believe it sustained them nutritionally but what it did was it made them feel as if they weren't so hungry hence they could live on a lesser ration of food without complaining too much.

"2. how could the isrealites eat the mushrooms daily for any long period of time? the ritual use of these mushrooms has usually been documented as just that, ritual, not daily. not to mention the fact that when someone takes mushrooms the day after previously taking them, they must eat twice the amount to get the same effect. compile this day after day, and the mushrooms would cease to have the same effect that they did in the first place. also, have you ever heard of anyone who was able to sustain that amount of daily ingestion for very long at all? a couple of, maybe even several days, maybe, but weeks, months, years? i don't know..."

Good question and I don't know if my answer will suffice but it goes along the lines of my answer to the first question. It was mainly used to still their hunger, I don't think the idea moses had was that they be tripping continously for any long period of time that would as you say require an increasing dose each day but the scripture clearly shows it was a set amount. Having that said even the amount each should gather each day would for any prolonged period of time be to say the least be unhealthy. Also from my perspective I am not so sure that they really walked around in the desert for 40 years mainly because there has never been any evidence found for that happening, you would think that a large tribe like that wandering around would leave traces behind them such as burial places etc. Most likely it is only a legend in which the writer wanted to tell coming generations of the feats of the israelites and how God blessed them with manna from heaven to help them not only survive but also to prove them whether they would walk in God's law or no.. I could continue spinning in these lines but I think you understand my perspective on it all.
Again thanks for your questions they are indeed welcome.

THP

Manna, a celestial food?

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

hi all,.

no, i opted to post this in the bible research forum mainly because i feel some might take my post as a bit offensive, non the less if you are interested in manna from a different viewpoint it is over there.. thp.

ps: it is not an offensive post just a wacky one, to some.. edited by - thehighpriest on 5 march 2001 7:56:51

TheHighPriest

Hi all,

No, I opted to post this in the Bible research forum mainly because I feel some might take my post as a bit offensive, non the less if you are interested in manna from a different viewpoint it is over there.

THP

Ps: It is not an offensive post just a wacky one, to some.

Edited by - TheHighPriest on 5 March 2001 7:56:51

7

Manna, a celestial food?

by TheHighPriest in

this will make most of you guys think that i believe you can find god in a mushroom, that is not exactly true but what if the jews did?

what if that is what the early christians thought?

what if christianity is inspired by drug users?

TheHighPriest

Hi everyone,

This will make most of you guys think that I believe you can find God in a mushroom, that is not exactly true but what if the Jews did? What if that is what the early Christians thought? What if Christianity is inspired by drug users? Would you still believe what they teach?
A mushroom that can be traced to the roots of nearly all of this earths various religious writings including that of the bible. Which one is it and how can you trace it ?
Well, I will answer that but first I would like to state what kind of posting this is and what this is not.
This is a quest aiming at delving into the very roots of religiousness and spirituality, how did it evolve? where did it come from ?
Of course I interject my own philosophical ideas and opinions so please bear with me if you think I'm out to lunch, I do not pretend to know everything infact I admit I don't know everything.
However, this is the result of studies I've conducted mainly on my own, covering a heap of fields such as botany, entheobotany, archaeology, anthropology, philology, philosophy, psychology, religion and iconografy as well as a number of other inter-related fields.
I am no expert in any of these fields but I do have a reasonably sound knowledge in how to conduct research.
This is not an endorsment of any drug/plant/mushroom nor any religion or belief system.

Symbology is where a lot of answers are found and that is true for this study. I have found that although this mushroom and other sacramental substances is present in christianity ( http://people.etnoteam.it/maiocchi/fabbro.htm) and most other religions, they (religious organisations) have gone to great length's in denying their own symbology and their meanings and simply dismiss it as of no importance or purely symbolic. This is of course entirely possible, although I don't think it is likely infact I doubt such a thing has ever occured in history, I mean why else would you use symbology in that sense? I believe that when religion removed the individual's right to experience the effects produced by any of the substances that imparts GNOSIS, (the joining together of the consciousness with the consciousness of the Divine) religions themselves become lies especially when the same systems inspired by Entheogens condemn their usage. In today's society nearly all drugs are condemned and while I have nothing positive to say what so ever about most drugs I feel that a blanket assessment of all drugs as being dirty is not only unfair, but a classic case of dis-information. Drugs, in the psychedelic category, are commonly referred to these days (by those in the know) as "Entheogens", meaning simply; "the generation of God within"; for the experiencer, "the realization of God within ones own consciousness". There are many plants who carries properties that expand consciousness, probably thousands of books have been written that seek to either explore or explain the use of these psychedelic plants among these numerous ones have dealt with the use of such substances by spiritual practitioners in most every religion formed on the planet. What about our own bible then? How does the bible give clues to the usage of visionary drugs? Most people would never consider the use of visionary plants to be a spiritual experience yet they readily accept that God speaks to us through animals and burning bushes that are not consumed. This to me is interesting because such people believe that a spiritual experience must come directly from god and that the use of visionary plants goes against the teachings of the Bible. However, the Bible never actually condemn the use of these plants but what you will find is a lot of references to a spiritual food sent down from heaven by God, that food is called manna. The Bible never actually tells us what this manna really is but it gives a very good description of what it is as well as where it came from, it's physical qualities and the conditions needed for it's appearance. The first reference to manna in the Bible is found in the story depicted in Exodus chapter 16 as the children of Israel are fleeing from egypt. After following moses into the wilderness for six weeks they began complaning that they were hungry and tired and the Bible starts by giving us a truly remarkeble account.

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will vain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law or no (16:4). And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground (16: 14). And when the children of Israel saw if, they said one to another It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.

The description given in this passage fits that of a psilocybe (magic) mushroom exactly.
Anyone who has picked these magic mushrooms would know that they are indeed small and round and appears more or less overnight. Note that manna does not just fall from heaven, but instead it is described as coming with the dew and the fact that it's got no roots makes it look like it has simply rained down from heaven.
Finally the manna is described as bread.
This seems to be a description as to how you may find and identify the manna.
Look for the small round things which are like bread, come with the rain, Psilocybe mushrooms also sprout in tiny pin heads which branch out in all directions and bear a resemblance to hoar frost. It is also interesting to note that Moses tells the children of Israel that manna comes directly from Heaven to test them on whether or not they will walk in God's law. Here is evidence that manna was endowed with unusual spiritual powers, like those of magic mushrooms. However, manna does not automatically confer spiritual power. Instead, it serves as a test. Magic mushrooms would provide visionary experiences that would certainly test all who ingested them. Moses also said that the manna is literally the "bread of the lord" which is remarkably similar to the literal Aztec name for psilocybe mushrooms, "flesh of the gods."

But how and why did the manna suddenly appear? Again referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.

In Exodus 12: 19-20, we find more references to manna.

And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning (16:19). Notwithstanding they harkened not unto Moses. but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms and stank: and Moses was wroth with them(16.20). And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating. and when the sun waxed hot it melted...(16:21).

Anyone familiar with wild mushrooms knows that they go bad very quickly and shrivel up under the heat of the sun, exactly like manna.
It seems curious that Moses recognized the manna instantly when the children of Israel showed it to him. He knew that the manna would spoil if it was not picked and eaten in the morning. But how did Moses know about manna? Perhaps Moses knew about manna because he had already encountered the mushroom at the time he saw the burning bush. Referring to art earlier period of his life, we find that Moses:

...kept a flock of Jethro, his father in-law the priest of Midiam: and he led the flock to the back side of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb (3:1). And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed (3:2).Had Moses eaten the sacred mushroom while camped at the mountain? Here again we can only speculate that manure from his flock and a change in climate had created the proper environment for the mushrooms to fruit. Perhaps Moses ingested the mush- rooms purely by accident, or perhaps his father in law, who we know was also a priest, had introduced Moses to the mushroom. Archaeological evidence of psychedelic mushroom use in Biblical times is well documented by Terence McKenna, so it is reasonable to conclude that Moses could have had some experience with visionary mushrooms. (1)
Later, in Numbers 11:6-9, manna is again described in terms that are remarkably similar to magic mushrooms:

But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes. And the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdelliaum. And the people went about and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar and baked it in pans: and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.

Here we find manna described as before our eyes, having a neutral taste like fresh oil, and once again, the Bible mentions that manna appearing in the morning when the dew fell. The Old Testament even tells us what manna looks like, the manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof. When psilocybe mushrooms are dried, their range of colors is virtually identical to dried coriander seed. In both cases, with mushrooms and coriander seeds, we see great similarities in the texture, color, tones, contrasts and general visual appearance. The Children of Israel must have given great thought about how to transmit the appearance of manna so as to aid future generations who might encounter it. However, mushrooms were a mystery to the Hebrews and they were unable to predict where manna could be found. Little did they realize that the manure from their cattle was providing a means for the mushroom to find its way into their mountain campsites.
Notice that the manna was ground in mills or beat it in a mortar. That is odd because earlier we are told that manna was quite delicate and, then the sun wax hot, it melted. However, if manna was the psilocybe mushroom, then it was probably dried and then ground in order to be used for baking. In fact, dried magic mushrooms are quite hard. Grinding or crushing the dried mushroom and then baking with the powder would insure that the delicate psychoactive molecules retained their highest potency.

In the next passage, the Bible describes manna as having light tan color and texture like a wafer, certainly an accurate description of the color and texture of a dried psilocybe mushroom. We also learn that the taste of manna is no longer that of fresh oil but rather that of honey. According to McKenna's research', honey has long been used in Mexico as a preserve medium for psilocybin containing mushrooms. Perhaps the children of Israel had begun to mix honey with the manna to preserve its potency. We find that Moses announced that manna must be kept for future generations:

And the house of Israel called the name there of manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey(l6: 31). And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth. Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations: that they may see the bread where with I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt (16:32).

Again we are told to fill an omer with manna But how much is a omer? Isaac Asimov, in his book on the Bible, concludes that an omer is about four liters, while the King James version of the Bible estimates an omer to be six pints. Psilocybe mushrooms are 92% water and only 8% remains when they are dried. Also, fresh mushroom take up a lot of space, due to their shape. So four liters of fresh magic mushrooms would yield less than a tenth of a liter, or about 1/4 cup of dried, powdered manna This corresponds closely with the amount of magic mushrooms required for a moderately strong dose when used for baking This is important because it clearly shows that not only does manna have similar qualities to magic mushrooms, it also shows that it was also used in the same quantity as mushrooms. So manna matches psilocybe mushroom on both a qualitative and quantitative analysis providing a compelling argument that psilocybe mushrooms are in actuality "manna from Heaven."

Of course there are those who will remain eternally skeptical, but keep in mind that the description of manna given in the old testament bears an exact resemblance to mushrooms. Even if psilocybe mushrooms are not manna the similarities have indicated mushrooms as a possible candidate, and they certainly fit the bill for a "spiritual food'. Unfortunately, when the Children of Israel finally reach the arid land of Canaan, the mysterious manna no longer appeared.

And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land: neither had the children of Israel manna any more.

The children of Israel must have been deeply disappointed when they ran out of their sacred manna. We can see that they went to great lengths to preserve their knowledge about identifying and using manna The Old Testament contains detailed information about the color, texture, appearance, and relation- ship to dew, and the Old Testament even explains how manna is to be ground and then used in baking cakes. If the Israelites thought that manna was a magical event caused by God would they have bothered to note all the details about the identification of manna? What about the manna that Moses said must be put away for future generations? Turning to Hebrews 9:3&4 we find:

And after the second vail, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all: Which had the golden censer and the Ark of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna...

Here we learn that manna was to be kept in the Holiest of all, the Ark of the Covenant. Clearly, the manna was something of great spiritual power since the Hebrews treated it with such reverence and even went to such great lengths to see that manna be given to future generations. We must also consider the covenant that the Jewish people held with God which was celebrated through the act of circumcision. Why was this covenant with God associated with the removal of foreskin from infant males. Why not a tattoo, scar, article of clothing or jewelry? Perhaps the answer is that the circumcised pen1s bears a remarkable resemblance to psilocybe mushroom just be- fore the partial veil has broken away from the mushroom caps and they are at their greatest potency. If the Ark of the Covenant was specifically built to store manna it is logical was also tied to manna through the ritual act of circumcision, which gave each Jewish male his own mushroom-like pen1s.

The discovery that manna was (and is) psilocybe mushrooms is not simply an issue of theological or academic debate. So great was the power conferred by manna, that this small band of wandering slaves were able to defeat all enemies who crossed their path even when confronted by armies that were bigger and better equipped. Jews, Christians and Moslems can all trace their roots to the children of Israel who ate manna for forty years and saw themselves as God's chosen people. Again, we are reminded of McKenna"s thesis that those who ate psilocybe mushrooms had a survival advantage due to better visual acuity, heightened senses, better hunting skills, and for the children of Israel, better warrior skills. Manna gave the Hebrews their own covenant with God one that is even recognized today by Christians who believe that the Jews have already earned a special place as the Chosen People. Bible scholar Grant R Jeffrey explains:

"The covenant which God made with Abraham and the kingdom promises to David, Solomon and all the prophets will be finally realized in the Mellennial Kingdom... the Lord promised a new covenant with Ismel in which He would give them a new heart, forgiveness of sin, and the infilling of the Spirit to the renewed nation. This promised kingdom will provide the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of the Chosen People forever"'

What is the new covenant? It is the rediscovery of manna. Across the gulf of thousands of years the Bible transmits and accurate and detailed description of manna waiting for the time when the message can be decoded and manna can again fulfill its role as acelestial messenger. Manna was the basis of the Jewish covenant with God. Indeed, it is this covenant and the use of manna which has set the Jews apart as the Chosen People. The Bible is not the message, it only points the way. Manna is the holy sacrament that provides the means for God to "prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no."
If manna is indeed the psilocybin mushroom, then this means that the Koran, Bible, and Torah were all inspired by psychedelically induced visions. The very foundations upon which these religions rest were derived from the mushroom experience. Moses and the children of Israel used the mushrooms as sacraments to communicate with a Higher Power, also known as Jehovah. It also means Christianity is completely screwed up.

THP

1. Terence McKenna, Food of the Gods, (New York, Harper Collins)

15

Wine that maketh glad the heart of man.

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

why is it that drinking is so widely accepted amongst jw's when the bible has this to say about it?.

*** rbi8 proverbs 20:1 ***.

20 wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise.. here the bible say's clearly it is not a good idea to get stuck in to the drinks but i guess the writers of proverbs, inspired as they were, did not fully agree on the drinking issue because later one of them wrote:.

TheHighPriest

Hi Ozziepost,

Greetings from the other Island, you said: "Verses 4 and 5 seems to show a God who understands the poor. We in affluent lands may find it hard to understand the some of the poor in the world's urban slums spending their limited funds on alcohol. Here in Proverbs 31:7 God is showing us the reality for many people in these circumstances, namely "let them drink and forget their poverty."

It is not much good to a poor unfortunate soul that God understands him what would be good is if God helps them instead. I think christians should take more after the salvo's as they seem to be the ones that actually do more than just understand, they help.

THP

15

Wine that maketh glad the heart of man.

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

why is it that drinking is so widely accepted amongst jw's when the bible has this to say about it?.

*** rbi8 proverbs 20:1 ***.

20 wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise.. here the bible say's clearly it is not a good idea to get stuck in to the drinks but i guess the writers of proverbs, inspired as they were, did not fully agree on the drinking issue because later one of them wrote:.

TheHighPriest

THP: It's not always a good idea to attack that which has persevered for milleniums without some respectful hesitation.

Point well taken. It was not my intent.

THP

15

Wine that maketh glad the heart of man.

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

why is it that drinking is so widely accepted amongst jw's when the bible has this to say about it?.

*** rbi8 proverbs 20:1 ***.

20 wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise.. here the bible say's clearly it is not a good idea to get stuck in to the drinks but i guess the writers of proverbs, inspired as they were, did not fully agree on the drinking issue because later one of them wrote:.

TheHighPriest

Danny bear,

You are right I should have known better.

THP

15

Wine that maketh glad the heart of man.

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

why is it that drinking is so widely accepted amongst jw's when the bible has this to say about it?.

*** rbi8 proverbs 20:1 ***.

20 wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise.. here the bible say's clearly it is not a good idea to get stuck in to the drinks but i guess the writers of proverbs, inspired as they were, did not fully agree on the drinking issue because later one of them wrote:.

TheHighPriest

Larc,

The whole of the middle east is stooped in drug culture and you have not seen it? Maybe you don't wan't to see it I don't know.
When you say I don't care if I see any evidence or not to me, and then say to Frenchy that you have never seen any evidence of a drug culture, which side of your mouth is talking when? Makes me think you are having a go at me on a personal level, I hope not as I would rather withdraw then having a domestic fight here.lol

THP who will argue the argument but not the person

15

Wine that maketh glad the heart of man.

by TheHighPriest in

jw
friends

why is it that drinking is so widely accepted amongst jw's when the bible has this to say about it?.

*** rbi8 proverbs 20:1 ***.

20 wine is a ridiculer, intoxicating liquor is boisterous, and everyone going astray by it is not wise.. here the bible say's clearly it is not a good idea to get stuck in to the drinks but i guess the writers of proverbs, inspired as they were, did not fully agree on the drinking issue because later one of them wrote:.

TheHighPriest

Englishman you are right, there is nothing wrong with a pint of whatever the local publican serves and I think you see my point in all of this.
I am not attacking the use of alcohol I am attacking the hypocrazy that surronds it, Jw's are real good at saying all drugs are bad for you with a drink in their hand, my qustion is what gives? I am not one who say's no to a beer but more often than not I would, not because I don't like it but because I think there are friendlier drugs than that. Most of my relatives (JW's of course) hit the moonshine and I might add they are excellent producers of the same, however I don't think they have any watchtower recepies.lol
I've got a name for a drink though, The apostate slammer.

THP

65

The Poor JW Children

by larc in

jw
friends

the children.

there are many things that could be changed, and even though i would never go back, i think there are some very basic changes they could make in their child rearing practices, simple changes that would make a big difference in their society.. 1. don't force small children to sit for two hours in a chair.. this was discussed at length on the thread about slapping children at the kingdom hall.. 2. don't bring children to meetings where the subject has to do with adult sexual practices.. 3. don't tell teenagers that they can't ask someone out for a date unless marriage is on their mind.. 4. don't tell them that they are not special, that they have to humble themselves and be like everyone else.. 5. don't tell them they have to get good grades through high school as a reflection of what jehovah has given them and then tell them they can't go to college when they graduate from high school at the top of their class.. 6. don't tell your wordly neighbors that you give your children presents all through the year, but not on their birthday, when they have never seen a special gift wrapped present in their life.. 7. don't expect a shy child to enjoy going from door to door and don't expect an extroverted, lively child to sit still at meetings.. 8. don't tell an inquiring child not to ask questions and don't tell them not to read interesting books.. 9. don't surprised if you don't change your ways that your children will leave you, even though they love you.

TheHighPriest

Hi larc,

That was an absolute ripper of a post.
All I remember is my childhood as a JW, these were the things that bothered me. One of the first things I remember about going to meetings were mum dragging me out to the restrooms giving me an ar$efull with a pingpong racket, this was after an elder had instructed her in how to make your children sit still during meetings.

THP who was sore on that day.