TheStar

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Posts by TheStar

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  15

  What would YOU say to this JW about Dateline??

  by TheStar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i visited the about.com forum (christianity - general) to see if anyone there mentioned the dateline story and sure enough there was a mention of it.

  a jw replied to it and i couldn't resist but to post a different view of the situation.

  she of course replied to me and much of what she said is very distrubing and some of it is out right lies.

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  TheStar

  Thanks for the reminder Puffs! Great info. I can use, thanks.
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  15

  What would YOU say to this JW about Dateline??

  by TheStar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i visited the about.com forum (christianity - general) to see if anyone there mentioned the dateline story and sure enough there was a mention of it.

  a jw replied to it and i couldn't resist but to post a different view of the situation.

  she of course replied to me and much of what she said is very distrubing and some of it is out right lies.

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  TheStar

  Mr Biggs,

  Thanks. That is one point that is clear in my head. As you can see from her very well written reply, there is much more ground to cover.

  Mike,

  I'm not following, say again?
• 
  15

  What would YOU say to this JW about Dateline??

  by TheStar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok i visited the about.com forum (christianity - general) to see if anyone there mentioned the dateline story and sure enough there was a mention of it.

  a jw replied to it and i couldn't resist but to post a different view of the situation.

  she of course replied to me and much of what she said is very distrubing and some of it is out right lies.

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  TheStar

  OK I visited the about.com forum (christianity - general) to see if anyone there mentioned the Dateline story and sure enough there was a mention of it.

  A JW replied to it and I couldn't resist but to post a different view of the situation. She of course replied to me and much of what she said is very distrubing and some of it is out right lies. There is so much to respond to I don't even know where to start with this. I am asking for all of you to please help me put my thougths together to give a good response. About.com is a VERY popular site and many will be reading my response. It has to be good.

  This is what she said.
  ______________________________________________________________________

  http://forums.about.com/ab-christianity/messages?msg=10439.22

  NBC Takes on Paradise Pedophiles

  I understand your points quite well, and I don't mean for it to sound like I side with the pedophiles I just have a tendency to argue for the sake of arguing sometimes. Also, I'm looking at this from several different angles, so I'll try to explain a little better.

  1) I really do understand that pedophilia is a sickness that few understand. It is more than temptation, and currently there is very little that can be done to help some with this problem. However, not every case deals with pedophilia in the strictest sense. The allegations were about sexual child abuse which has a very large definition. I know of some cases in which the "child" was a teenager; not that this excuses the action, but often the offender was not much older. In this type of case, pedophilia is not the cause but an uncontrolled sex drive is the problem. In this type of case the person is, and should be, treated differently, although it is referred to as "child abuse". I agree that in situations of true pedophilia it is nearly impossible for one to be reformed, but that does not mean he/she is not repentant. As far as the ministry is concerned, you said that no pedophile is going to commit his crime with others watching, and that is why he is not allowed to go door-to-door alone. So he would always have at least one on-looker. And while it would be nice to round up all of the pedophiles and put them under lock and key, not only is that nearly impossible but it would also be a violation of their rights. So again, it becomes the parents' responsibility to protect their children, even if there is no visible threat.

  2) The two witness rule brought out on Dateline was taken out of context almost entirely. This is a scriptural principle designed to protect the innocent, much as the US uses "innocent until proven guilty". It is used in every situation where one member accuses or reports wrongdoing of another: gossip of the most hurtful kind (slander), smoking, drug abuse, fornication, drunkeness, etc. This is not to say that if there are not two or more witnesses the matter is dropped entirely. Further, this is solely for handling matters within the congregation. As mentioned, but never explained on Dateline, the elders do investigate matters. This is not to circumvent state laws or criminal proceedings, but to ensure that the offender is removed from the congregation. If the elders cannot establish that a matter has happened (or even if they can), it is up to the parents to take it to the police. I know of at least one case where there was more than one witness, simply because the person was caught in the act. Also, if the victim is one witness and the accused admits it, then there's the 2 witnesses. If someone does bring the accusation forth, and there are no witnesses THEY ARE NOT DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR SLANDER. I really want to emphasize this point. They can only be disfellowshipped for slander if they spread the accusation through the congregation and it has no basis. Further, often the elders no that there may be no witnesses, but it's likely the person has committed the offense, in that case parents are warned discreetly to keep their children safe. (On a side note, matters like this are rarely secrets for whatever reason, and many in the congregation will know about the matter even if the person is not disfellowshipped and they take appropriate action.)

  3) As far as admitting that they are wrong, or that their system doesn't work, I'm not so sure they'd have to. The system does work if it's followed. It's just like you put it, the problem is with humans and how they use or abuse their power. In the least, this situation is going to help the elders see that they have to follow the directions they have been given. The #1 rule being handle it as soon as possible. And even though the people interviewed made it sound that way, the elders' job is NOT to render criminal justice, but to keep the congregation clean.

  4) As to why they declined the interview, the Watchtower society has included the letter they sent to Dateline on one of their websites. I think it is perfectly understandable why they declined, if you read the letter. It can be found at www.jw-media.org. You made a mistake in your post you said, "Still Dateline gave them another opportunity to show themselves clean and asked for proof that they excommunicate the child molesters. The Watchtower had no proof, they only had 2 cases that they were able to submitt to Dateline and in both cases the perpatrator was NOT a Jehovah's Witness." Witnesses cannot excommunicate or disfellowship someone who's not a member, in these two situations the parents were told to go the police because there was nothing that could be done for the congregation. Also, these were not necessarily the only 2, just the two that were submitted.

  5) I also find it interesting that Mr. Bowen and the others never quantified their findings. They simply said "a lot" when referring to what they found in their research. What is a lot? 100? or 10? (It's still too many, though) I would be interested in knowing exactly how many cases he has come across.

  6) Finally, when I go to the Kingdom Hall I'm sitting next to former fornicators, idolators, druggies, drunkards, slanderers, murderers, etc. It's not what they've done, it's what they are trying to do to change, to conform to God's standards, realizing that alone they have no power, but that God can help them to overcome whatever problems they may face. And that he, unlike some of us, has the power to forgive if a mistake is made.
  ____________________________________________________________________

  If you want to follow the full discussion, go to www.about.com, click on religion & spirituality, then click on christianity - general, then click on forums and you can go in as a guest or you can register yourself. Again the topic is "NBC Takes on Paradise Pedophiles"

  Thank you for your help in advance!
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  8

  My Favorite Part was

  by Grunt in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a lot to like about the dateline but i think my favorite part was after they had shown the taped interview with ole junior brown, and asked for erica's response.

  jr's had been long windy, legalistic and insincere.

  in a gut reaction she shook her head and said one word with real emotion, "liars.

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  TheStar

  Sorry if I've said something in error, I'll have to watch the video again.
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  63

  About Daniel Fitzwater-Exposed on Dateline

  by LFitzwater in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is a very long story that i will try to condense.

  it will still probably be too long.

  life is good for us now that we know the real truth.

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  TheStar

  ((((Laurie))))

  Thank you for sharing your story with all of us, it means so much.

  Welcome to all the new ones here!
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  35

  Hearing Kingdom Songs on Dateline.......sickened

  by Mulan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did anyone else have the bile come up, when you heard those "kingdom songs" during the dateline show?

  it made me feel ill.........and almost like leaving the room.

  i wonder why i have such an aversion to anything connected to a kh meeting?

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  TheStar

  Yeah and did they have to play that music twice in the segment?!?!?!?
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  65

  Lies in the Dateline Show

  by TheMatrix in

  1. social
  2. current

  first lie: erica.

  i dont believe erica lied about her abuse.

  obviously it must be true, even mr. beliz confessed that he touched her inappropriately.

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  TheStar

  Matrix what a fitting name!!

  We understand it must hurt to see the truth that was shown in the Dateline program.

  I myself can only hope that you will put aside your pride and ego and not take it personally but see this for what it is, the truth. This is about the leaders of your organization, it is not about you. Don't let those leaders use your energy for their evil deeds. Unplug yourself Matrix, don't be their battery.
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  54

  Barbara Anderson Disfellowshipped

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as of 1 pm today barb anderson was notified that she has been disfellowshipped in writing by the judicial committee in her congregation.

  barb was df in absentia at a second hearing that was declared after she successfully defended herself against charges in the first hearing.

  home office came back with further instructions to make it stick the second time around.

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  TheStar

  (((Barbara)))

  Thank you for making a difference in this world now and for years to come.

  Lots of Love,

  Star
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  5

  Dateline issue important but more important..

  by bboyneko in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what does fredhall have to say about this?.

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  TheStar

  Naeblis!!

  ROLFLMAO
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  5

  Quote from Dateline, pretty interesting

  by Bendrr in

  1. social
  2. current

  john larson must have done some research on the jw's obviously.. in the intro part of the dateline segment, i noticed he was pretty blunt.. he said:.

  "anyone from outside the church, most of you watching tonight, are considered part of satan's world which will be destroyed by jehovah god".. notice that he said "jehovah god", commonly used by dubs but not normally by anyone else.. also he included all the "hot button" rules sure to catch the attention of "worldly people": birthdays, christmas, blood transfusions, and military service.. nice work, john!

  i move to bestow the title of "un-disfellowshipped apostate" upon john larson.. mike.. ...

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  TheStar

  John Larson is my new best friend!!