as most of you know, i'm studying tarot cards.
each week a new lesson arrives via e-mail.. a couple of weeks ago, lesson 3 showed me how to do a three-card spread.
it's where a queston is asked, the 22 cards of the major arcana are shuffled, and the top three cards drawn.
A while ago I found a DOS freeware program for tarot. If you'd like to download it click here:
http://www.rkwest.com/myfiles/tarot.zip
There's also I-ching and fortune telling freeware available. For the complete list click:
http://www.rkwest.com/downloads.shtml
thinker
respecting god-given authority.
the watchtower bible and tract society (wts) teaches jehovah's witnesses (jws) that "anointed servants" of god are endowed with an appointment of authority over christians.
the basis of this teaching is the biblical text of matthew 24:45-47, which reads, .
Marvin,
By assuming God has appointed a FDS you give the GB authority which is biblically incorrect.
I've been wondering why the WTBTS always references Matthew when discussing the "Faithful and Discreet Salve". You can find the same parable in Luke as well. In Luke the FDS story is preceeded by a question: "Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?". While the WT often presents the FDS parable as a question that needs to be answered, Luke shows that the parable IS an answer; an answer to Peter's question concerning the PREVIOUS parable. Knowing this, I searched for the FIRST parable preceeding the FDS parable. Here they are from Matt. & Luke:
Mat24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Luke12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. Luke12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
The bold areas show the similarities.
I then searched Mark for the first parable and compared it to Luke:
Mark13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Mark13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Luke12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. Luke12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
The bold areas show the similarities. All the above verses preceed the FDS parable in Matt., Mark, and Luke. While Matt. makes it appear that the FDS is a whole new story, Luke shows it is just an explanation of the first parable because of a question from Peter. His question threatens the claim that the GB is the FDS: "Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?".
The answer in Matthew and Luke is presented by Jesus as a parable (the FDS parable). But Mark provided a plain and clear answer:
Luke12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Mark13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
By sticking to Matt., the WT has chosen the vaguest version of this parable, one which allows them to present it as a question that only they can answer. But, Mark has already provided a clear answer, if you're willing to look for it. In the Insight book the following scriptures are listed to justify the WT's arguement concerning the FDS: Mt 25:14-30; Tit 1:7-9, Isa 43:10, 1Jo 2:18; 2Jo 7, Eph 2:19; 1Ti 3:15, 1Co 3:2, 5; 4:1, 2; compare Mt 4:4, 1Pe 1:1, 2; 4:10, 11, Mt 24:45; Heb 3:6; Eph 2:19, Heb 5:11-14; compare 1Co 12:12, 19-27, Mt 24:46, 47; Lu 12:43, 44.
This wild goose chase leads the reader far from the simple answer that can be found by comparing the gospels. John is the only gospel not to address the parable that proceeds the FDS. However he did comment on the possiblity of the apostles being considered "servants": John15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Clearly the FDS is ALL. (Mark 13:37)
my witness mother received her regular visit from an elder (she lives with me)...she told me he said they have something new, where the circuit overseer could talk to disfellowshipped ones [i'm disassociated 7 years, out 17] if the disf.
one so wishes, and be invited to attend the meetings.. mom said, "donald just wants to be left alone.".
elder: "jehovah knows peoples' hearts.
I know what you mean, Morris. Maybe you could use a little entertainment. Check this out:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=40190&site=3
thinker
the company .
(a short play by thinker) .
(bob and ted sit in bob's livng room over a couple cold ones) .
The Company
(a short play by thinker)
(Bob and Ted sit in Bob's livng room over a couple cold ones)
Bob: "Man, I can't believe I got fired! I worked my whole life for that company."
Ted: "What did you expect Bob? You go questioning the decisions that come down from the top, they're going to can you." "Those guys built this company into what it is today."
Bob: "Well, I know a few dirty little secrets about how this company was built" "You ever been to the company archives down in the basement?"
Ted: "I don't think we should be discussing that; whatever happened in the past is done and over." "Just look at where we are today!"
Bob: "To tell you the truth, I'm really not going to miss working there. It's not like they paid us anything..."
Ted: "Bob, that's not really fair. You know the company has made promises to us. Our future's really gonna be great someday, if we just stick with the company." "Besides, all your friends and family work there. Won't you miss them?"
Bob: "Yeah, that part sucks." "They take on new employees everyday; strangers off the streets, and they cuddle up and kiss their butts; but now that I'm fired, I'll probably never see them again."
Ted: "You could always come back. You know the routine, lay low for awhile, then go through the re-interview."
Bob: "I heard that can be tough, sitting at the back of the room during seminars like a whipped puppy. Then you never know how long the interview will last..." "Besides, how can I just forget the things I know about this company?" "I don't know if it's worth it."
Ted: "Well, I gotta run, Bob. Some people from work are getting together tonight..."
Bob: "OK Ted, I'll see you around."
Ted: "You know, I could visit more if you worked for the company. I hope to see you there soon."
Bob: "Bye, Ted. Take care."
Ted: (As the door is closing.) "Come on back to the company, Bob. It's a great place to work."
Bob: (As he sits down alone.) "I don't think so, Ted. There's GOT to be a better job out there than that one."
recently someone here wrote a thread which basically said that if a certain gb member had only spoken up and proclaimed that 1914 was a proven incorrect date, then the whole watchtower organization would have crumbled.
1914 was claimed to be the essential doctrine of the wt.
i humbly disagree.
Good points everyone!
Garybuss,
You are correct, I had forgotten the change in "heaven vs paradise" taught by the WT. Interesting what you say about disbeliefs. I hadn't considered that before. No doctrines only non-doctrines.
Farkel,
I love how your mind works. But how many JWs can keep up with that line of thinking?
Concerning the FDS being God's channel. What does that really mean to the average JW? It doesn't mean the GB is infallible. I think JWs believe the GB not because of 1914, but rather because they want the reward of the promised Paradise. It's more emotional than logical, which is why it's so hard to sway them with logic and facts. Also, according to the WT, the FDS has been somewhere on earth since Jesus was here, so what's 1914 got to do with it?
To me the whole 1914 thing is illogical. God sends a coded dream, not to any holy land prophet, but through a pagan king???!!! Get real.
recently someone here wrote a thread which basically said that if a certain gb member had only spoken up and proclaimed that 1914 was a proven incorrect date, then the whole watchtower organization would have crumbled.
1914 was claimed to be the essential doctrine of the wt.
i humbly disagree.
Recently someone here wrote a thread which basically said that if a certain GB member had only spoken up and proclaimed that 1914 was a proven incorrect date, then the whole Watchtower organization would have crumbled. 1914 was claimed to be THE essential doctrine of the WT. I humbly disagree. The numerous changes (and the final abandonment) of "the Generation" show that JW's really don't rely on 1914 as an essential doctrine of the WTBTS. What then, are the essential teachings that the WT rely on for keep the sheep in the fold?
These are the four teachings which have remained constant over the entire sordid history of the WTBTS:
1) No trinity
2) No hellfire
3) Everybody gets resurrected for a second chance
4) Paradise on earth
Of these, I believe "No trinity" is the least essential. The WT depicts the Jesus=God idea as nonsense, but has no problem accepting the equally bizzare Jesus=Michael the archangel. I believe the WTBTS could change this teaching without shaking the faith of most JWs. (SDA's are basically JWs with a trinity doctrine.)
The "No hellfire" is just another way of saying "Paradise on earth".
Number 3, "Everybody gets resurrected" is just a second chance for the "Paradise on earth".
So, it seems that the ONE keystone doctrine of the WT is "Paradise" (the 144,000 is just super-sized paradise).
My wife (DA'd since june 2000) has a good friend (an active JW) who refuses to shun her. After a full year of avoiding any spiritual discussions, this JW brought up the topic this way: "So, do you still believe in the paradise on earth?" This is what really matters to JWs. Everything else that's wrong with the WT only serves to chip away at this one core belief. Thats why the UN scandal, pedophile scandal, blood policy changes, or any other single issue does not instantly shake a JWs belief in the GB. All of these flip-flops and all the scandals must slowly erode a JWs confidence in the GB before they are willing to give up on the promised paradise. Paradise is the one topic you can find in every WT and Awake. I believe it is the one thing that is most useful for gaining new converts and keeping JWs in the organization.
JWs might be interested to know that the Paradise was discovered long ago. After three trips across the Atlantic, Columbus began to doubt that he was visiting Asia. He said, "God made me the messenger of the new heaven and the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse by St. John,...I am convinced that this is the spot of the earthly paradise whither no man can go but by God's permission..."
(Christopher Columbus 1498)
Edited by - thinker on 2 November 2002 8:47:2
Edited by - thinker on 2 November 2002 8:48:16
i will be talking with a jw soon about the trinity.
she tells me that she can use any translation to disprove the trinity and that jesus is not divine.
i feel good about talking to her but i would love to know their plan.
Hi Juitman,
Have them bring their Kingdom Interlinear translation of the Greek Scriptures. Look up 1John 5:7-8. Then ask them to read the literal translation (from their own experts) vs. the NWT.
NWT: "For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."
Kingdom Interlinear: ""Because three are the (ones) bearing witness, the spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three into the one (thing) are."
Edited by - thinker on 29 October 2002 20:16:25
met the in-laws this weekend!
my wife (born&raised jw) and i have been married 2 1/2 years.
because my wife da'd right after we met, her parents think i'm the spawn of satan and took their daughter not only from them but from god himself.
Thanks Nilfun,
I have a collection from everyone here on the board.
http://www.geocities.com/avalon_dream/Jehovahs_Witness_Poetry
i don't read very many watchtowers or awakes, but the oct. 1, 2002 watchtower seems especially concerned with keeping jws in the borg.
pg.
10: (jw teen speaking) "a good relationship with the brothers and regular attendance at the meetings have kept me from missing mt worldly friends and activities that are popular with kids...".
Sorry D-man,
Maybe I should've put a warning on this post.
RHW,
I count 5 "obedient"'s or "obedience", 1 "humble", 1 "submitting",
3 with "attendance" or "Stay close"or "Association" and 5 with"organization", "congregation", "slave" or "representative"
All within 21 pages! I wonder what they were getting at....
i don't read very many watchtowers or awakes, but the oct. 1, 2002 watchtower seems especially concerned with keeping jws in the borg.
pg.
10: (jw teen speaking) "a good relationship with the brothers and regular attendance at the meetings have kept me from missing mt worldly friends and activities that are popular with kids...".
I don't read very many Watchtowers or Awakes, but the Oct. 1, 2002 Watchtower seems especially concerned with keeping JWs in the Borg.
Pg. 10: (JW teen speaking) "A good relationship with the brothers and
regular attendance at the meetings have kept me from missing mt worldly friends and activities that are popular with kids..."
pg. 11: "
Jehovah's organization helped me to obtain the knowledge of God ." " What a joy to see that many are staying close to Jehovah's organization,..."
pg. 12: "Jehovah blesses and protects those who are
obedient " "However, if we stay close to God and respond quickly to the direction we receive through his Word and organization, we can be assured of his protective care."
pg. 14: "Such a
humble attitude on our part also helps those giving counsel."
pg. 16: "So ask yourself, 'Am I striving to build up my faith through diligent Bible study, prayer, and meditation, as well as by
regular association with God's people ?'"
pg. 17: "Today, Jehovah does not inspire prophets as in the past; instead, he has provided a
faithful slave class ..." "How important, therefore, that we have an obedient attitude toward that "slave!" " Such obedience also reflects our attitude toward Jesus, the 'slaves' master." " Obedience to Jehovah has often involved obedience to his representatives ."
pg. 19: "By
submitting to the slave class, God's people also show their subjection to the Master, Jesus Christ."
pg. 22: "So let us continue to appreciate Jehovah's
wonderful theocratic organization and what it provides."
pg. 28: "Our God invigorates us throughthe Bible,
his earthly organization , and..."
pg. 31: "In these last days, those who would please Jehovah and gain life
cannot afford to hesitate in making the choice between right and wrong, between God's congregation and the corrupt world."
Is this the usual number of thinly-veiled threats?
