Posts by thinker

18

A Gospel Puzzle

by thinker in

(this is wt bs!

so with fear and great joy, these women also run off.. (matt 28:8 also mary m. and other mary.

mary m. has already gone according to the wt!).

This is likely the case since Mary Magdalene is consistently associated with other households. The Mary Magdalene who first saw Jesus in the garden seems to be connected with the household of Peter and John who might have been living together at the time. The Mary Magdalane who saw Jesus on the road with the "Other Mary" was, obviously with the "Other Mary" and perhaps her maid/companion. And the Mary Magdalene who arrived after the sun came up with Jesus' mother Mary and other relatives to put spices on the grave was likely a servant in her household. Magdalene is considered to be related to "Madeline" or "Magda" which in German is a reference to a 'maid'. Thus a "Magdalene" might have been a formal title given to a professional housekeeper and companion or that position."

So your theory is that John and Peter had a maid named Mary, the other Mary had a maid named Mary and Mary the mother of Jesus had a maid named Mary? Luke 8:2 seems to indicate that Magdalene was the title for only one Mary. She seems to have been very wealthy for a maid.

BTW, the german word for maid is "madchen" not magda.

thinker

18

A Gospel Puzzle

by thinker in

(this is wt bs!

so with fear and great joy, these women also run off.. (matt 28:8 also mary m. and other mary.

mary m. has already gone according to the wt!).

thinker

Hi Jeff,

"An actual reading of the gospels in parallel and discussing it would have been interesting. I often wondered why we didn't have that kind of Bible study at the KH....Of course now I know why - they were afraid of legitimate questions, provoking discussions, and conclusions reached by thought."

You're absolutely right. Here's the study questions. You'll notice that none of the questions I've raised are included.

÷ After finding the tomb empty, what does Mary Magdalene do, and what experience do the other women have?

÷ How do Peter and John react at finding the tomb empty?

÷ What do the other women encounter on their way to report Jesus’ resurrection to the disciples?

÷ What happens to the soldier guard, and what is the response to their report to the priests?

÷ What happens when Mary Magdalene is alone at the tomb, and what is the response of the disciples to the reports of the women?

Here's something really interesting. These sciptures were referenced in a group at the end of the article. No references in the article itself.

Matthew 28:3-15; Mark 16:5-8; Luke 24:4-12; John 20:2-18.

Notice anything strange about the references? Each starts a couple lines into each chapter. I've found that what's missing from a WT article is often what's most important. In this case all four Gospels have a time-stamp on them in the lines just prior to those referenced. Matt 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1. Seems like they'd like to ignore those signs of what happened first, second, third, then fourth. thinker

18

A Gospel Puzzle

by thinker in

(this is wt bs!

so with fear and great joy, these women also run off.. (matt 28:8 also mary m. and other mary.

mary m. has already gone according to the wt!).

thinker

Anyone who has read the gospel accounts of Jesus's resurrection has probably noticed a number of differences in those accounts. In March 1991 the WT tried to combine all four accounts into a coherent story. I've studied that story and found it is pure BS:

Jesus’

Life and Ministry

Jesus

Is Alive!

w91 3/15

WHEN the women find Jesus’ tomb empty,

(Because of the term "women" this must be Mark 16:5. The women in this version were Mary M., the other Mary and Salome)

Mary Magdalene runs off to tell Peter and John.

(John 20:2 but this version talks of Mary M. being alone)

However, the other women evidently remain at the tomb.

(This is WT BS! Whenever you see the word "evidently" look for BS)

Soon, an angel appears and invites them inside.

(WT BS version of Matt 28:2 which has Mary M. and the other Mary only. They just said Mary M. has "run off", so who is "them" refering to? There is no mention of an invitation from the angel they see in Matt; in fact they never enter the tomb in this version.)

Here the women see yet another angel, and one of the angels says to them: "Do not you be fearful, for I know you are looking for Jesus who was impaled. He is not here, for he was raised up, as he said. Come, see the place where he was lying. And go quickly and tell his disciples that he was raised up from the dead."

So with fear and great joy, these women also run off.

(Matt 28:8 also Mary M. and other Mary. Who are "these women" who run off? Mary M. has already gone according to the WT!)

By this time, Mary has found Peter and John, and she reports to them: "They have taken away the Lord out of the memorial tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him." Immediately the two apostles take off running. John is fleeter of foot-evidently being younger-and he reaches the tomb first. By this time the women have left, so no one is around. Stooping down, John peers into the tomb and sees the bandages, but he remains outside.

When Peter arrives, he does not hesitate but goes right on in. He sees the bandages lying there and also the cloth used to wrap Jesus’ head. It is rolled up in one place. John now also enters the tomb, and he believes Mary’s report. But neither Peter nor John grasps that Jesus has been raised up, even though He had often told them that He would be. Puzzled, the two return home

(John 20:2-6) , but Mary, who has come back to the tomb, remains (John 20:11) .

In the meantime, the other women are hurrying to tell the disciples that Jesus has been resurrected, as the angels commanded them to do.

(Matt 28:9-10 talks of Mary M. and other Mary. So who is the other women?)

While they are running along as fast as they can, Jesus meets them and says: "Good day!" Falling at his feet, they do obeisance to him. Then Jesus says: "Have no fear! Go, report to my brothers, that they may go off into Galilee; and there they will see me."...

...Mary Magdalene, who remains behind at the tomb, is overcome by grief. Where could Jesus be? Stooping forward to look into the tomb, she sees the two angels in white, who have reappeared! One is sitting at the head and the other at the foot of where Jesus’ body had been lying. "Woman, why are you weeping?" they ask.

"They have taken my Lord away," Mary answers, "and I do not know where they have laid him." Then she turns around and sees someone who repeats the question: "Woman, why are you weeping?" And this one also asks: "Whom are you looking for?"

Imagining this person to be the caretaker of the garden in which the tomb is situated, she says to him: "Sir, if you have carried him off, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away."

"Mary!" the person says. And immediately she knows, by the familiar way he speaks to her, it is Jesus. "Rab·bo'ni!" (meaning "Teacher!") she exclaims. And with unbounded joy, she grabs hold of him. But Jesus says: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’"

(John 20:11-18)

Mary now runs to where the apostles and fellow disciples have gathered. She adds her account to the report that the other women have already given about seeing the resurrected Jesus. Yet, these men, who did not believe the first women, apparently do not believe Mary either. Matthew 28:3-15; Mark 16:5-8; Luke 24:4-12; John 20:2-18.

(This WT fairy tale of a combined resurrection story has THREE Mary Magdalenes in three different places at once!)

I'm reading a book right now that does put together a reasonable story from all four gospels. Anyone care to guess how it goes?

thinker

40

Why are there more JWs on Social Security Beneifits than any other Religion

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

on a per capita ratio jws ethos for claiming off the state is higher than any other religion.

does anyone have the answer?

i remember in the late 80s the borg came out with an article "uses and abuses of the welfare system".

thinker

"On a per capita ratio JWs ethos for claiming off the state is higher than any other religion. Does anyone have the answer?"

Yes, I know why. The governments are all run by satan. It's called financial theocratic warfare.

thinker

13

The bible and astronomy

by thinker in

jw
friends

has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book?

if so what do you think of that theory?

does it make sense to you?

thinker

DannyBloem said: "It is thought that the 7 day week comes from babylonian. It represents the sun, the moon, and the 5 known planets, making it seven. We still call it sun-day, and mo(o)n-day. (The names of the otehr days, are replaced with scandanavian deities)."

This was also why the Israelites candlestick had 7 candles. Some very early writer commented on this. Josephus maybe?

thinker

13

The bible and astronomy

by thinker in

jw
friends

has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book?

if so what do you think of that theory?

does it make sense to you?

thinker

How Jesus Got the Job of Messiah

It was thought that God gave signs in the heavens when important events were about to occur.

Gen. 49:10 "

The scepter will not turn aside from Judah, neither the commander’s staff from between his feet, until Shi'loh comes; and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong."

Num. 24:17 "A star will certainly step forth out of Jacob,

And a scepter will indeed rise out of Israel." (This connects the scepter with a star)

Testament of Levi 18:3 "And his star will arise in heaven as a king, lighting up the light of knowledge as by the sun of the day."

Matt. 2:2 " "Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east,.."

August 12, 3 BC Jupiter and Venus rise in conjunction. This occurred in the constellation of Leo, which is the symbol of the Hebrew tribe Judah. (Gen 49:9 "
A lion cub Judah is."
)

September 3, 3 BC Jupiter rises in conjunction with Regulus, brightest star in the constellation Leo (Judah).

February 3, 2 BC - a Second time Jupiter rises in conjunction with Regulus.

May 2 BC - a Third time Jupiter rises in conjunction with Regulus.

September 14, 2 BC 4:30 am As the full moon sets in the west; Venus, Jupiter, and Mars rise in a vertical line (a scepter) in the east. This occured in the constellation Virgo the Virgin. The King is born 'of a virgin' under the sign of the scepter.

thinker

13

The bible and astronomy

by thinker in

jw
friends

has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book?

if so what do you think of that theory?

does it make sense to you?

thinker

In the year 2750 BCE the star Thuban was almost exactly in the North Pole position; it is located in the constellation Draco (Dragon or Serpent). From the years 2750 on, Thuban descended from its pole position to be replaced by Polaris.

Let's assume that the early sky watchers thought that Dracon would contine it's descent:

Rev 12:9 " So down the great dragon was hurled, ... he was hurled down to the earth, .." thinker

13

The bible and astronomy

by thinker in

jw
friends

has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book?

if so what do you think of that theory?

does it make sense to you?

thinker

Here's a quick rundown of some of the sky myths in the bible:

Serpens

The constellation serpens is a HUGE snake-shaped constellation. It's so big only half of it is visible in the northern hemisphere. The tail end is visible in the sothern hemisphere. Hence, the serpent god cut in two aka. Leviathan.

Jonah's whale

There is a whale-shaped constellation that has a red star right at it's mouth. This red star is Jonah being swallowed.

Why was Jonah in the whale three days? And Jesus in the ground three days? Follow the monthly cycle of the moon. It disappears from the sky for three days. It was thought to travel to the netherworld under the earth (Hades) and contend with the forces of darkness. This god (the moon) then rose again on the third day. To celebrate the rising of the god the Israelites blew on a ram's horn at the new moon. Why a ram's horn? Because it is shaped like the cresent moon. This also explains the horns their god wanted on her altar, incense burners, etc... (see Exodus). I said HER altar because the moon is traditionally a feminine god. Why is that? Because a womans monthly cycle follows the moon's 28 day cycle. This is also why blood is concidered life (see Genesis). When a woman retained her blood a new life was being formed. Hence, the blood was life being created in the womb.

To understand the bible all you have to do is know a little about the heavenly objects and think like a superstitious pagan. It all falls into place.

thinker

13

The bible and astronomy

by thinker in

jw
friends

has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book?

if so what do you think of that theory?

does it make sense to you?

thinker

Hi All,

I can see we have alot to discuss on this.

"The Bible tells us stars were made to provide light at night. Apart from that, I can't think of where it mentions astronomy at all.

Are you thinking about astrology?"

I think we forget how important reading the sky was to the ancients. With our clocks and calendars we don't pay much attention anymore, but back then the sky WAS clock, calendar, and compass all rolled into one. The knowledge of how to read the sky was considered sacred and mysterious. There was no distinction between astronomy and astrology in ancients times.

The most obvious correlation would be the 12 tribes and the 12 signs of the zodiac. There is also Ezekiel's angel with the face of a man, an eagle, a bull, and a lion. Each of these 'faces' is a constellation that corresponds to one of the cardinal points in the sky at night: North, South, East, and West.

Here's an interesting correlation found in Genesis:

He (man) will bruise you in the head and you (serpent) will bruise him in the heel." Gen 3:15

I always thought that was a strange phrase. But when you look at the man as the constellation Hercules and the serpent as the constellation Draco, it makes perfect sense. In those constellations Hercule's heel is right over Draco's head. Then as the stars rotate in the sky Draco's head is right over Hercule's heel.

Here's a star map which shows this relationship very well: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/file/BEEEF542-566E-4C5F-85F4-34DA62526719.ashx

You might enjoy a freeware astronomy program called Star Calc:

www.relex.ru/~zalex/main.htm

There are many more correlations we can find between the stars and what's in the bible. I'lll add more when time permits

thinker

13

The bible and astronomy

by thinker in

jw
friends

has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book?

if so what do you think of that theory?

does it make sense to you?

thinker

Has anyone else done any research on the bible as an astronomy book? If so what do you think of that theory? Does it make sense to you? And what correlations have you found?

Thinker