Posts by thinker

60

How Well Do You Know The Bible?

by dark clouds in

jw
friends

i want to share a perspective, with everyone that comes here to read, for i feel it will take some of us in a new direction.

perhaps it will allow for some creative thinking and interesting discussion or maybe it simply wont go anywhere.

it does not really matter either way, for there are subjects which can only be speculated on and thoughts which can only be shared.

thinker

Thought I'd add my own scientific observations from Genesis:

Ge1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Isn't the rotation of the earth responsible for dividing the light and dark?

Ge1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

ONE light, the sun; reflected off the moon. Not two great lights.

Ge4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Who is this "every one"? Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel. Abel is dead, leaving only Adam, Eve and Cain.

Ge9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. Ge9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

Rainbows are God's weapon?

Ge11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. Ge11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. Ge11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Ge11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Did God really fear Man would build a tower to Heaven?

thinker

60

How Well Do You Know The Bible?

by dark clouds in

jw
friends

i want to share a perspective, with everyone that comes here to read, for i feel it will take some of us in a new direction.

perhaps it will allow for some creative thinking and interesting discussion or maybe it simply wont go anywhere.

it does not really matter either way, for there are subjects which can only be speculated on and thoughts which can only be shared.

thinker

Hi Darkclouds,
Thanks for bringing this to the "top" again. I have tried to read the bible with an open mind to try and see why some would think it's the literal "word of God" and 100% factual. But, I can't get past the first chapter without realizing that 1) the story is incomplete and 2) it's not scientificlly accurate.
I prefer to make up my own mind based on literally everything I've learned.

thinker

185

Long Intro From A Long Timer

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

i am a new to posting on this board though i have been actively reading your posts the past while and i thank some of you for the interesting viewpoints that you have verbalized and that i have enjoyed thinking on.

i am still an active jw, in fact an elder of 20 years standing hence my need to limit information about my personal circumstances.

i have served in a number of countries in europe as a pioneer and elder over the past three decades.

thinker

Hello hilliary step,
I enjoy your posts. They seem thoughtful and sincere. I don't agree with your view of thr GB's motives, though. It is very difficult to determine 100% correctly the motives of someone else, but most people observe the actions and base their judgements on those actions.
I believe Russel was sincere in his beliefs, but after him; the WT become more concerned with self-preservation than Jesus, God or the Bible. This is common to most religious organizations. If you've read Crisis of Conscience, you know how the Mexico branch was incorporated as a "cultural organization" to allow the WT to own property. This decision had more to do with business than morals or religious beliefs.
RF also presnts a view of the GB meetings that have very little to do with Jehovah. As I said earlier, we could discuss this endlessly, as it is not really possible to determine 100% the motives of others. But, I respect your right to form your own opinions and I enjoy reading the way you present them.
Welcome aboard.
thinker

9

*" .amazing growth, prosperity ..&qu...

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

i was wondering about the quote found in the.

february watchtower (15/2001 p. 27), there in 17 it is written:.

" in his book these also believe, professor charles s.braden.

thinker

Speaking of numbers, I visited a site which claimed there are now more Ex-JWs than active JWs. No actual figures were given to back up this statement, so I'm wondering; is it true? Can anyone here back this up?

3

Why hide it ???

by thinker in

some active witnesses have learned some of the history of the wt teachings.

yet, they continue to believe in "jehovah's perfect organization".

they say "we have 'new light' now.

thinker

Some active witnesses have learned SOME of the history of the WT teachings. Yet, they continue to believe in "Jehovah's perfect organization". They say "We have 'new light' now. It doesn't matter what they used to teach."
By "new light", I assume they mean that Jehovah's holy spirit directed the GB to make these changes in teaching. To me this sounds like a truly wonderous thing. So, why HIDE ALL THE CRAZY THINGS THAT USED TO BE TAUGHT ? If these changes came directly from Jah, you'd think they would be proud of their past and proclaim it to all. Instead they hide it and discourage any active witness from researching the past.
My wife was a JW for over 40 yrs. Only after she left did she find out about all the "old light". Are they ASHAMED of what Jehovah's holy spirit has imparted to them? Then, why hide it in darkness?

6

HELL !!!??? NO....

by thinker in

something my wife said to an active relative a while back made me think that the watchtower really missed an opportunity.

she told him "i don't believe it's the truth, and if it is at ammagedon i'll just be dead.

but, at least i'll have enjoyed my life.".

thinker

Something my wife said to an active relative a while back made me think that the Watchtower really missed an opportunity. She told him "I don't believe it's the truth, and if it is at ammagedon I'll just be dead. But, at least I'll have enjoyed my life."
I was raised to believe in Hell. Eternal burning in fire for ever and ever. For a religion that relies on fear to pass up the concept of Hell is a major mistake. Burning forever in eternal torment seems to me to be FAR worse than just missing out on Jesus's Disneyland version of the new world.
So, what do you think? Did they screw up? Will they someday adopt the concept of Hell?

26

To StiLLinTruth

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

this is only the second post that i've made on this board, so i hope that by posting this a second time, that i'm not violating some rule that i'm unaware of.

if i am, then i apologize to all.. however, this answer to stillintruth is on the fourth page of his last post, and i want to make sure he and as many others as possible can see it.. you will note that i sign my real name to the bottom of this.

that is meant as an open challenge to any and/or all to do something about it.

thinker

Mommy,
You asked: [q]Why do the active Jw feel that if a person walks away from the organization, they are throwing their morals out the window? I was going to ask you this on the other thread, but it was getting a tad long.[/q]
I believe the WT cannot admit that some may simply not believe their view of the bible. So they "demonize" any who disagree with their teachings by saying they must have left because of immorality. In this way they isolate any independent thinkers from the active brain-washed class.

20

still in doubt

by gotcha in

jw
friends

it's my 1st time to post here..i'm basically an open-minded person.

so it has always bothered me to think that there is only one true religion.i've always told this to my mom but she thinks otherwise.

i love my mom so much that i would do anything to make her happy but she knows that i have doubts.

thinker

Larc,
I'm glad to see you brought up the topic of Noah's ark again. It gives me a chance to explain my thoughts on it more fully.
Reading this forum has made me very grateful that my religious upbringing was not more intense. I believe it gives me a more objective view of the bible since I was never told what some organized religion thought it said. To me, the whole story of Noah's ark is explained in the very end (the moral of the story, as they say). This is what I think happened:
A long time ago in a more primative time, a child asked his father "Daddy, why do we sometimes see an arc of beautiful colors in the heavens?" The father sees the curve of colors, compares it to a bow (a weapon) and spins a tale about why God has hung his weapon in the clouds (a warrior would hang up his weapon when he was done fighting). That is why the story ends like this: Ge9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Ge9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
Ge9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
To all those who believe the story is literal, I ask: "Do you believe a rainbow is God's weapon hanging on a cloud or do you believe the more modern explaination of refracted light?"
thinker

16

Just looking for answers.

by Texasbred in

jw
friends

unfortunately, i'm not quite sure what my questions are.

my first post was in the "dating..." forum, if anyone's interested.. the biggest problem i have is my complete ignorance concerning jw's and their beliefs/ practices.

the research i've done has provided only polar opposite views, either jw is the way or it's a cult and it's wrong.

thinker

Hi Tex,
Sounds to me like your girlfriend is already backing away from the JW's. I never tried to push my wife to leave. Always remember that it's a very personal decision with dire results (shunning) if she decides to leave.
At first my wife considered staying in and started thinking of ways we could fool everyone. I was not comfortable lying about us and she soon saw that trying to keep everything quiet was just imposible. Give your girlfriend time, listen to what she says, and just be there for her. I think she knows that sooner or later she'll have to make a decision.
thinker

25

What now?

by agent2863 in

jw
friends

most of the people on this message board i've noticed are either ex-jw's or in the process.

good for you!

it is sad to see all the hurt & pain & confusion that the org has caused, and continues to cause.

thinker

Agent,
I hope I didn't offend you with my reply. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are clearly making some assumptions that others here (myself included) may not agree with. For example, you seem to feel that the bible is the only book to base your life on. You read the part of Jesus' resurrection and accept it as fact. I would guess that you view the bible as "the word of God". I could go on, but it's clear to me that any discussion based on the bible eventually falls into interpretations and personal beliefs. Trevor made a good point about other religions which lead you to start defending your own personal beliefs. I'm glad you read and interpret the bible on your own. All I'm asking is that you consider that others may read the very same words and get a different meaning.
I will add this: No matter what others may think of Jesus, I believe he was a great philosopher and had an excellent message. My favorite was the sermon on the mount.

thinker