What music, that is. I highly recommend Sade's new CD, "Lover's Rock". Every song is a perfect accompaniment to "the horizontal dance".
So, what music enhances your enjoyment?
thinker
JoinedPosts by thinker
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What are you making love to ???....
by thinker inwhat music, that is.
i highly recommend sade's new cd, "lover's rock".
every song is a perfect accompaniment to "the horizontal dance".
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Did the Resurrection really happen?
by thinker inwas written next and makes a brief mention of the resurrection and ascension; which includes a conspiracy theory about the body being stolen (matt.
where did jesus first appear?
where else did jesus appear?
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thinker
Faith in the Bible has had some very funny results over time. Take a look at the map below and the quoted explanation of it. This map of the earth was based on faith in the Bible. It has Jerusalem in the center (Eze. 5:5), Eden in the east (Gen. ?:?), Gog and Magog in the North (Rev.), six parts land and one part water (2 Esdras 6:42). Other maps can be shown which show the earth shaped like the Tabernacle (Heb. 9:1-3).
Much of what christians today assume is "allegory" or "symbolic" was at one time taken as literal. Could the resurrection someday be thought of the same way?
TITLE: The Psalter Map
DATE: 1225-1250 A.D.The Psalter map displays world knowledge removed as far as possible from the comparative science of the classical (Greek) world, and as yet quite untouched by the new light of the later Middle Ages. Or, simply the world as viewed by the didactic theocracy of medieval Europe.
While centered precisely on Jerusalem, Paradise, in the Far East, is conceived in a somewhat exceptional manner.
The heads of Adam and Eve appear within the enclosure, which seems to be marked off with lofty and symmetrical mountains. The Tree of Temptation is roughly drawn between the two faces. (Bevan and Phillot, Medieval Geography, xlii, suggest the Arbre Sec, which they make identical with the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil; and Yule, Marco Polo, II.397, refers us to legendary language about the Dry Tree which would perhaps support such an identification; - 'in the midst of Paradise was a fountain, whence flowed four rivers, and over the fountain a great Tree bare of bark and leaves').
The draftsman's excessive regard for a literal interpretation of the Old and New Testaments explains the orbo-centric position of Jerusalem. In fact much the same reason may be used to account for the Psalter's eastern orientation. So many biblical references and place-names within Palestine and adjacent Bible lands are given that this area occupies more than a third of Asia. The Ark of Noah appears very clearly on a mountain of Armenia, and a large fish swims in the middle of the Sea of Galilee, perhaps as a reminiscence of the New Testament history. The Barns of Joseph, close to Babylon and Egypt, show us that our artist has heard of the Pyramids. The most famous cities of the ancient world, and the most famous sites of the Bible, are nearly all represented; while the immense and symmetrical Jerusalem, in the very middle of the world, forms a perfect center to an exact circle.
The Psalter and Ebstorf also have a curiously similar treatment of the Caspian Rampart (otherwise Alexander's Wall, the Hyrcanian Mountains, or Barrier of the Jews - some scholars believe that this feature is actually the reflection of a vague or confused reference to the Great Wall of China), shutting in the Gog-Magogs and other monsters of the North; but the Gates of Alexander are more clearly marked on the Psalter than anywhere else in this family of maps.
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The Bible Does Not Condemn Witchcraft
by Sirona inthe jws are against anything remotely pagan and they're certainly against witchcraft.
they say the bible condemns it.
scriptures such as exodus 22:v18 "you must not preserve a sorceress alive" (nwt) or as the king james version says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".
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thinker
The Book of Enoch has an interesting take on witches:
"Chapter 7]1 And all the others (nephalim) together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants."
Sounds to me like the "witches" were the first to discover the healing properties of herbs. This learning supposedly came from the nephalim (angels).
Chapter 65
6 And a command has gone forth from the presence of the Lord concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, and all their powers -the most secret ones- and all the power of those who practice sorcery, and the power of witchcraft, and the power of those who make molten images 7 for the whole earth: And how silver is produced from the dust of the earth, and how soft metal 8 originates in the earth. For lead and tin are not produced from the earth like the first: it is a fountain 9 that produces them, and an angel stands therein, and that angel is pre-eminent.'
And He said unto me: " Because of their unrighteousness their judgement has been determined upon and shall not be withheld by Me for ever. Because of the sorceries which they have searched out and learnt, the earth and those 11 who dwell upon it shall be destroyed." And these-they have no place of repentance for ever, because they have shown them what was hidden, and they are the damned: but as for thee, my son, the Lord of Spirits knows that thou art pure, and guiltless of this reproach concerning the secrets.
Is herbal medicine the reason for the flood?
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TO Thinker's Wife and Thinker
by somebody incan you please send me the link, or put it in here, the thread to the "faithful and discreet slave", appointed by jesus christ, saying in a courtroom of law that they have "no personal relationship" with their followers/elders's victims?.
i know where to look it up, but some features of the board are not usable right now.. peace,.
"air baths are good for preventing colds.. what you do is strip naked mornings and evenings and then bob up and down for a while.
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thinker
[¶10] The crux of Bryan's claim is that the church, because of an alleged special relationship with its members, has a duty to protect its members from each other, at least when the church and its agents are aware of a potential danger posed by a member. Because the church elders knew of Baker's propensity to abuse children, Bryan argues that they had an independent duty to protect him from Baker.{4} He addresses that duty through three separate counts. We address each count in turn.
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[¶15] Therefore, in order to determine whether the church owed Bryan a duty of care to protect him from other members of the church, we must determine whether a special relationship, reviewable by the secular courts, exists between a church and its members in this context. Bryan asserts that such a relationship does exist, and he refers to it as a "fiduciary" relationship. "One standing in a fiduciary relation with another is subject to liability to the other for harm resulting from a breach of duty imposed by the relation." Id. § 874. He bases the alleged fiduciary relationship on the "substantial trust and confidence" he placed in the church, and alleges that the church breached its fiduciary duty to him when it failed to warn him about Baker and failed to exert some type of control over Baker's actions.
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Did the Resurrection really happen?
by thinker inwas written next and makes a brief mention of the resurrection and ascension; which includes a conspiracy theory about the body being stolen (matt.
where did jesus first appear?
where else did jesus appear?
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thinker
More strange coincidences:
The Babylonians observerved certain enumerated days- the 7th, 14th, 19th, 21st, and 28th days of the month. They called these days "SABATTU". Did the idea of a seventh day of rest, a "SABBATH", come from the days when the Jews were held captive in Babylon?Also, the Babylonians made the whole sky a stage for their mythological imagination. The evening (or morning) star, later called the planet Venus -the brightest heavenly object next to the sun and moon- became a luminous lion roaming the sky from east to west. The great god El, jealous of so bright and high-rising luminary, put the lion to death again at every dawn. The Old Testament has a very similar story at Isa. 14:12-14.
Jesus is also refered to as "the morning star" in Rev. Jesus (according to some interpretations) also appears as a lion in Rev.The literal translation of "babylon" (Bab-ilani) means "door of the gods". Jesus refered to himself as "the door" in the gospels.
Strange isn't it?
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Fluffy's Journal
by thinker inthere's been times when i've tried starting a personal journal.
i usually don't have the patience to fill it out every day.
but, with so many friends here to help out i think it work.
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thinker
June 5, 2002
MAY 24!!!!!...Well, I see you all aren't any better than me at keeping a journal. O.K.,...Here's today's fluff.
Seemed like the hottest day yet this year. Humid too. I was covered in sweat by the end of the day. And since I was working with sand it had stuck to alot of my body. I felt like some strange form of human sandpaper! But on the way home, brushing stray bits of sand off; I remembered coming back from the beach and doing the same thing. And a hot shower at home really felt great. -
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Did the Resurrection really happen?
by thinker inwas written next and makes a brief mention of the resurrection and ascension; which includes a conspiracy theory about the body being stolen (matt.
where did jesus first appear?
where else did jesus appear?
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thinker
Interesting replies, everyone. I think I'll keep reading for awhile before I comment further....
thinkerps. Annie, I'm not an atheist.
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reasoningonthescriptures
by toddy inbelow is a reply to the dateline programme over on the "just jw" forum.. if i ever show any interest in becoming a dub,please kill me!.
from: reasoningonthescriptures sent: 03/06/2002 10:40. brothers and sisters, i have read all of the posts on this subject although i didn't manage to see the show myself.
i have been quite disturbed by some of the things i have read here.
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thinker
I swear! If a JW EVER knocks on my door, I'm telling them to "GO AWAY, I'm waiting on Jehovah!"
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Did the Resurrection really happen?
by thinker inwas written next and makes a brief mention of the resurrection and ascension; which includes a conspiracy theory about the body being stolen (matt.
where did jesus first appear?
where else did jesus appear?
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thinker
The Pattern of Historical Account vs. Myth:
In historical accounts written after an event, the stories written most closely to the actual event are usually the MOST detailed and accurate. Those written many years later tend to contain LESS details. Myths, on the other hand, start with a central idea and GAIN details as the years go by. For example, we know that the myth of Santa Claus started with the actual person of St. Nick. That idea of St. Nick has grown to include a magical workshop at North Pole staffed by elves, magic sleigh and flying reindeer, landing on rooftops and traveling around the world in a single night. Each generation added MORE details to the myth.
1) the first gospel written was Mark (50-67 A.D.)
2) the oldest copies of Mark end with Mark 16:8 and make no mention of the appearance of the resurrected Jesus (except an angel says "he is risen). It is generally agreed upon that Mark did not write the last 12 verses. From the Catholic Encyclopedia: "Catholics are not bound to hold that the verses were written by St. Mark. " From ReligiousTolerance.org: "The oldest copies of the Gospel of Mark, the Sinaitic and Vatican, end at Mark 16:8. A note in the New International Version of the Bible states: "The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20." Verses 9 to 20 appear to have been added later by an unknown Christian forger. The addition was quoted in the writings of Irenaeus and Hippolytus in the second or third century."
3) Matt. was written next and makes a BRIEF mention of the resurrection and ascension; which includes a conspiracy theory about the body being stolen (Matt. 28:11-15); followed by Luke which uses ONE full chapter; and then John (about 120 A.D.) which uses TWO chapters to describe the resurrection and ascension.
Question: Why is it that the gospel written most closely to the event lacks any reference to that event? Why does the resurrection and ascension become more prominent as the years go by?
------------------------Internal Evidence:
Differing versions of the story.Question: How many women were at the tomb? Who came to the tomb first, the women, the apostles or the angel? One angel or more than one? Where did Jesus first appear? Was Jesus recognizable? Where else did Jesus appear? How and where did Jesus leave the Earth?
-------------------------Where could the idea of Resurrection have come from?
I was raised a Catholic. I remember as a child hearing my first mass in english rather than latin. I also remember when the usual hymns and church organ were given a rest and were replaced by a drum set and a couple of guitars. They played pop music with a semi-religious theme. Two songs I remember were George Harrison's "My sweet lord" and the beatles "Let it be". Seems that they wanted to make the church service more appealing.
I have copies of speeches that Russell gave in Masonic temples. In those talks he used terms and ideas very similar to the practices that the Masons follow. Things such as secret knowledge, Jehovah as the great builder, etc...
Just after the WTC attack some JWs left an Awake! in my door (April 2001). I ignored the terrorism article, but found the two "new age" articles interesting. One was on the mythical properties of amber and the other was about a stonehege-like ruin in Ireland.It seems to me that Religion often borrows from and incorporates popular culture in order to gain the attention of potential members.
Just how long has this been going on?RELIGIONS THAT THE EARLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH COMPETED WITH:
The doctrines of pagan religions at the time of Jesus' life:
At the time of the life of Jesus of Nazareth, and for some centuries before, the Mediterranean and neighboring world had been the scene of a vast number of pagan creeds and rituals. There were Temples without end dedicated to gods like Apollo or Dionysus among the Greeks, Hercules among the Romans, Mithra among the Persians, Adonis and Attis in Syria and Phrygia, Osiris and Isis and Horus in Egypt, Baal and Astarte among the Babylonians and Carthaginians, and so forth.
I may say roughly that of all or nearly all the deities
above-mentioned it was said and believed that:(1) They were born on or very near our Christmas Day.
(2) They were born of a Virgin-Mother.
(3) And in a Cave or Underground Chamber.
(4) They led a life of toil for Mankind.
(5) And were called by the names of Light-bringer,
Healer, Mediator, Savior, Deliverer.
(6) They were however vanquished by the Powers of
Darkness.
(7) And descended into Hell or the Underworld.
(8) They rose again from the dead, and became the
pioneers of mankind to the Heavenly world.
(9) They founded Communions of Saints, and Churches
into which disciples were received by Baptism.
(10) And they were commemorated by Eucharistic
meals.Let me give a few brief examples.
Mithra was born in a cave, and on the 25th December.
He was born of a Virgin. He traveled far and wide as
a teacher and illuminator of men. He slew the Bull
(symbol of the gross Earth which the sunlight fructifies).
His great festivals were the winter solstice and the Spring
equinox (Christmas and Easter). He had twelve companions
or disciples (the twelve months). He was buried
in a tomb, from which however he rose again; and his
resurrection was celebrated yearly with great rejoicings. He
was called Savior and Mediator, and sometimes figured as
a Lamb; and sacramental feasts in remembrance of him were
held by his followers.Osiris was born (Plutarch tells us) on the 361st day of
the year, say the 27th December. He too, like Mithra and
Dionysus, was a great traveler. As King of Egypt he
taught men civil arts, and "tamed them by music and
gentleness, not by force of arms"; he was the discoverer
of corn and wine. But he was betrayed by Typhon, the
power of darkness, and slain and dismembered. "This happened,"
says Plutarch, "on the 17th of the month Athyr,
when the sun enters into the Scorpion" (the sign of the
Zodiac which indicates the oncoming of Winter). His body
was placed in a box, but afterwards, on the 19th, came again
to life, and, as in the cults of Mithra, Dionysus, Adonis and
others, so in the cult of Osiris, an image placed in a coffin
was brought out before the worshipers and saluted with
glad cries of "Osiris is risen." "His sufferings, his death
and his resurrection were enacted year by year in a great
mystery-play at Abydos.Adonis or Tammuz, the Syrian god of vegetation, was
a very beautiful youth, born of a Virgin (Nature), and so
beautiful that Venus and Proserpine (the goddesses of the
Upper and Underworlds) both fell in love with him.
To reconcile their claims it was agreed that he should
spend half the year (summer) in the upper world, and the
winter half with Proserpine below. He was killed by a
boar (Typhon) in the autumn. And every year the maidens
"wept for Adonis" (see Ezekiel viii. 14). In the spring
a festival of his resurrection was held--the women set out
to seek him, and having found the supposed corpse
placed it (a wooden image) in a coffin or hollow tree, and
performed wild rites and lamentations, followed by even
wilder rejoicings over his supposed resurrection. At Aphaca
in the North of Syria, and halfway between Byblus and
Baalbec, there was a famous grove and temple of Astarte,
near which was a wild romantic gorge full of trees, the
birthplace of a certain river Adonis--the water rushing from
a Cavern, under lofty cliffs. Here (it was said) every year
the youth Adonis was again wounded to death, and the
river ran red with his blood, while the scarlet anemone
bloomed among the cedars and walnuts.The story of Attis is very similar. He was a fair young
shepherd or herdsman of Phrygia, beloved by Cybele (or
Demeter), the Mother of the gods. He was born of a Virgin
--Nana--who conceived by putting a ripe almond or
pomegranate in her bosom. He died, either killed by a
boar, the symbol of winter, like Adonis, or self-castrated
(like his own priests); and he bled to death at the foot of
a pine tree (the pine and pine-cone being symbols of fertility).
The sacrifice of his blood renewed the fertility of
the earth, and in the ritual celebration of his death and
resurrection his image was fastened to the trunk of a pine-
tree (compare the Crucifixion). The worship of Attis became very widespread
and much honored, and was ultimately incorporated
with the established religion at Rome somewhere about the
commencement of our Era.The similarity of these ancient pagan legends and
beliefs with Christian traditions was indeed so great that
it excited the attention and the undisguised wrath of the
early Christian fathers. They felt no doubt about the similarity,
but not knowing how to explain it fell back upon the
innocent theory that the Devil--in order to confound the
Christians--had, CENTURIES BEFORE, caused the pagans to
adopt certain beliefs and practices! (Very crafty, we
may say, of the Devil, but also very innocent of the
Fathers to believe it!) Justin Martyr for instance
describes the institution of the Lord's Supper as narrated
in the Gospels, and then goes on to say: "Which the wicked
devils have IMITATED in the mysteries of Mithra, commanding
the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup
of water are placed with certain incantations in the
mystic rites of one who is being initiated you either know
or can learn." Tertullian also says that "the devil by the
mysteries of his idols imitates even the main part of the
divine mysteries." . . . "He baptizes his worshippers in
water and makes them believe that this purifies them from
their crimes." . . . "Mithra sets his mark on the forehead
of his soldiers; he celebrates the oblation of bread;
he offers an image of the resurrection, and presents at once
the crown and the sword; he limits his chief priest to a
single marriage; he even has his virgins and ascetics."---------------------------
To summarize, the story of the resurrection grew in detail as the years went by, just as a myth would. Religion has a history of "borrowing" from popular culture to attract new members. The popular pagan religions at the time of the apostles included a resurrection myth.
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How would the elders handle 30 counts of rape?
by JAVA ini read the story below from my hometown paper, and wondered how the elders would have handled this if it was brought to their attention?.
jamestown man indicted on 30 counts of rape.
associated press .
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thinker
Sorry Dutchie, but it takes at least TWO witnesses. They could always DF the brother for "bringing reproach upon Jah's organization" by calling the cops.
