Damn waiting! You got magazines?! You must just be one of Satan's distant cousins. LOL
thinker
JoinedPosts by thinker
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9
Met the in-laws Givashtz...
by thinker inmet the in-laws this weekend!
my wife (born&raised jw) and i have been married 2 1/2 years.
because my wife da'd right after we met, her parents think i'm the spawn of satan and took their daughter not only from them but from god himself.
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9
Met the in-laws Givashtz...
by thinker inmet the in-laws this weekend!
my wife (born&raised jw) and i have been married 2 1/2 years.
because my wife da'd right after we met, her parents think i'm the spawn of satan and took their daughter not only from them but from god himself.
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thinker
Met the in-laws this weekend! My wife (born&raised JW) and I have been married 2 1/2 years. Because my wife DA'd right after we met, her parents think I'm the Spawn of Satan and took their daughter not only from them but from God Himself. So I figured they were being really gracious just letting me into their home (under the cover of darkness, of course). Who givashtz ?
It started with mom-in-law smelling smoke on Thinker's Wife. Got her a lecture on the health risks (no mention of sin, Surprise!). TW changes subject quickly. Short introductions, head to the lving room, discuss neutral topics: wood floors, water leaks, droughts, brazilian mirrors, grand kids, etc... Who givashtz?
Then they mention attending the Super-Bowl of conventions in Italy. Out come the pictures...
ThinkersWife: "Did you get to see the Vatican?" (Who givasahtz about the JWs, show me some art works.)
Thinker: (Ouch!)
Active-in-the-truth-laws: "It was nice." (Do you think we givashtz about the Catholics?)
Bring out pictures of the big convention.
Thinker scans photos looking for any males with facial hair. No luck. It's like "Where's Waldo?".
Notices the "deer-in-the headlights" look on most attendees. Center stage was three small stages covered by tarps, not much bigger than hotdog stands. (What a ripoff!)
Mrs Active: "The Spanish Bros and Sis's would wave red and white hankies at the Italians and the Italians would wave yellow hankies back. Tee-hee."
Thinker: "Un-huh..."(Who givashtz?) (Thank God they didn't wave flags! I guess hankie-flags are theocratically OK)
On to the Italian Bethel brochure. Lots of stats about a publishing company using the latest equipment, etc.. (You think I givashtz?) Pictures of a scale model of Jerusalem built from what appear to be tan colored sugar cubes. I'm really eating this up now. (Look what you've been missing, honey!)
Then comes the grand finale. Some yahoo donated his fabulous house to the WT. (Probably screwed over his "worldly" relatives.) (What a fool! Oh, who givashtz?!)
Active-in-the-truth-laws: "Italian marble, Roman columns, square feet, mansion, blah, blah..." (It's like our own little Vatican!)
Some pleasant talk about the world around us follows, then Mr. Active realizes "the end" won't be near if things are going good, so he swings a quick turnaround to talk about moral decay, etc... (Better come back TW, before it's too late. Givashtz yet?)
TW: "Well, it's getting late..." (Get me out of here.)
The Active-in-the-truth-laws get in a couple quick verbal jabs at my wife as we're getting ready to open the door to leave and then we're outta there.
TW: "Never again!" (I just don't givshtz.)
A most interesting weekend. (Just in case you givashtz.)
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31
An Eye for an Eye: Bible Error
by JosephAlward inmany months ago i offered the "eye for an eye" conflict as evidence that the bible cannot be trusted to provide non-contradictory moral guidance.
since that time many new people have joined this forum, so i present this bible "difficulty" once again:.
scripture teaches that one should destroy one's enemies, and take an eye for an eye: "show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
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thinker
Here's an interesting explaination I heard once concerning "turn the other cheek":
Most people believe this means to accept violence against you meekly, without returning the violence. It seems that in Jesus' day the custom was that a man slapped another man of equal social status with an open palm (right hand slaps left cheek of victim). However, when a man slapped a man of lower social status he would deliver a backhanded blow (back of right hand contacts right cheek of victim). This is the type of blow a master would give to his servant, for example. Jesus spoke to the lower class mostly, so when Jesus told his listeners "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39) what He was saying is this: If your master strikes you as an inferior (on your right cheek) do not strike him back; instead turn your left cheek toward him and challenge him TO TREAT YOU AS AN EQUAL. This is a brilliant way to assert your equality without resorting to violence. A non-violent protest!
In the old South , southern gentlemen settled their differences with a duel. Imagine that a slave in the old South was hit by his master. Then the slave challenges the master to a duel. If the master refuses he looks like a coward. If he accepts he is admitting the slave is an equal.
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14
How does the WTS define "former member"
by Cappuccino OC inthe wts claims on their web site that they do not shun "former members".
it would be interesting to know exactly how they define "former members".
does anybody else sense that the wts is playing with the lexicon, meaning, of words.
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thinker
Blondie,
Interesting post concerning membership. Despite the fact that I've never been a JW I wrote the following:
I am a Jehovah's Witness, however:
1) BAPTISM: I have NOT been baptized.
Accordiing to Watchtower.org baptism is a two-step process: First, dedication to God and Second, showing "everyone". ( "After you have made your dedication to God, you should be baptized. (Matthew 28:19, 20) Baptism lets everyone know that you have dedicated yourself to Jehovah.")
Of the two steps stated above, the first seems to be the REAL baptism, the second is merely a show for "everyone". If I can locate other real JWs I would get baptized in front of them.
2) BOOKS AND MAGAZINES: I DON'T distribute books and magazines for a corporation. These books and magazines are published and printed by the Watchtower Corporation. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was incorporated
"To act as the servant of and the legal world-wide agency for that body of Christian persons known as Jehovahs Witnesses;.." (from the Watchtower charter). The Watchtower Corp. is current run by those members of the Governing Body who are on the WT board of directors. Few people who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses even know the names of the Governing Body and NO ONE who calls themself a JW has had any say in who is a member of the Governing Body. Therefore, the Corporation known as "Watchtower" does NOT serve Jehovah's Witnesses and I see no reason to help distribute their literature.If and when the GB is elected by rank&file JW's and WT, Inc. begins to SERVE JW's, then I may reconsider my position concerning their literature. Those who falsely call themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses" are in reality unpaid employees of Watchtower, Inc. TRUE JW's would be the masters of the Corporation, not it's employees!
3) BELIEFS & PRACTICES: Those who falsely call themselves JWs follow the beliefs and practices set out by the Governing Body. The GB is an unelected, self-perpetuating, unrepresentative group of men. The GB calls itself the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" chosen and directed by the Holy Spirit.
From Watchtower.org:
"God uses his spirit to enlighten those who serve him. David prayed: "Teach me to do your will, for you are my God. Your spirit [ru'ach] is good; may it lead me in the land of uprightness." (Psalm 143:10) When 70 capable men were appointed to help Moses, God said to him: "I shall have to take away some of the spirit [ru'ach] that is upon you and place it upon them."-Numbers 11:17.
(The Holy Spirit is available to ALL men, not just the leaders)Bible prophecy was recorded when men of God were "borne along by holy spirit [Greek, from pneu'ma]." (2 Peter 1:20, 21) In this way the Bible was "inspired of God," the Greek word for which is Theo'pneustos, meaning "God-breathed." (2 Timothy 3:16) And holy spirit guided certain people to see visions or to have prophetic dreams.-2 Samuel 23:2; Joel 2:28, 29; Luke 1:67; Acts 1:16; 2:32, 33.
(The history of the GB has NO evidence of "visions or prophetic dreams")By his spirit, God carries out his judgments on men and nations. (Isaiah 30:27, 28; 59:18, 19) And God's spirit can reach everywhere, acting for people or against them.-Psalm 139:7-12.
(Again, the Holy Spirit is "everywhere" not just in a few men on a Governing Body)'Power Beyond Normal'
GOD'S spirit can also supply "power beyond what is normal" to those who serve him. (2 Corinthians 4:7)
(The GB has never demonstrated "power beyond what is normal" )God's spirit also empowered the disciples of Jesus to do miraculous things. Acts 2:1-4 relates that the disciples were assembled together at Pentecost when "suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, . . . and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance."
(The GB does NOT speak in tongues)So the holy spirit gave Jesus and other servants of God the power to do what humans ordinarily could not do."
(By their own admission, the GB are just "imperfect men")I see no evidence that the GB is chosen or directed by the Holy Spirit. I have no desire to follow the teachings of an unelected, unrepresentative group of men which claims to hold powers it does not have.
4) KINGDOM HALLS: I attend NO kingdom hall.
The unpaid employees of WT Inc. buy or build kingdom halls to help distribute literature and to hold meetings. This makes these halls function as distribution centers and union halls for the unpaid, non-unionized employees of the corporation. As stated earlier, I am a Jehovah's Witness and I have no intention of working for a corporation designed to serve me and which does not represent real JWs.
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6
Does God change?
by thinker inrecently i read a thread about god's name.
so i did some research on the word "name" in the bible.
what i came away with is the question, "does god change?".
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6
Does God change?
by thinker inrecently i read a thread about god's name.
so i did some research on the word "name" in the bible.
what i came away with is the question, "does god change?".
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thinker
Recently I read a thread about God's name. So I did some research on the word "name" in the bible. What I came away with is the question, "Does God change?". The bible says that Abram's name was changed to "Abraham" by God after a certain change in him. Names in those days had meaning. Lots of people and places in the bible were named for significant events or changes which took place. When the background or history of those people and places changed, so did the name.
Abraham was said to have preached "in the name of Jehovah" (Gen. 13:4). But was God's name Jehovah at that time? No.
Exodus 3:15
And God saith again unto Moses, `Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this [is] My name -- to the age, and this My memorial, to generation -- generation.
Exodus 6:3
and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; as to My name Jehovah, I have not been known to them;
(Young's literal translation)
What was God's name before Moses asked? Does it matter? The important point is His name CHANGED. Because of a significant event, God took on a new name. That name means "I will be what I will be". Seems to me that God was saying, "I've named people and places all over this land and I'll call myself whatever I damn well please, whenever I please." CHANGE.
What about Jesus? Born into the Jewish faith, did he just go along with the crowd and follow the religious leaders? No, Jesus was all about change!
God can call Himself anything He wants anytime He wants, so yes, it seems to me He does change.
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More WT double-talk
by thinker infrom the forward of the kingdom interlinear translation of the greek scriptures:.
the forward starts on page 7 with these words: "the original writings of the christian greek scriptures, commonly called "the new testament," were inspired.
no translation of these sacred writings into another language, except by the original writers , is inspired.".
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thinker
From the Forward of The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures:
The Forward starts on page 7 with these words: "The original writings of the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called "The New Testament," were inspired. No translation of these sacred writings into another language, except by the original writers , is inspired."
Page 8: "No uninspired translator or committee of translators can claim any direct command from the Most High God to engage in translating the divine Word into another language."
Page 9: "In presenting this translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures our confidence has been in the help of the great Author of The Book. Our primary desire has been to seek , not the approval of men, but that of God, by rendering the truth of his inspired Word as purely and as consistently as our consecrated powers make possible."
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Invisible return of Christ - ???
by ChristianObserver ini have heard this mentioned before, but wondered if anyone could enlighten me about this - please?.
what exactly do jehovah's witnesses believe about the return of christ - do they believe that it was an invisible return and if so, when - and has this belief changed at all?.
any links to relevant publications and quotes would be much appreciated - or links to where this has been discussed previously :o).
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thinker
JW's say they believe that Jesus returned to earth invisibly in 1914, but this is not what the Watchtower teaches! In reading the WT publication "Revelation, It's grand climax at hand!" I noticed that many prophesies in Rev. had corresponding events in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses and mankind in general. In particular, the opening of the seven seals had specific dates that corresponded to each seal.
First Seal: A rider on a white horse goes forth to conquer. Rev. book pg. 90 says, "Hence, this lone horseman must be Jesus Christ and no other. John sees him IN HEAVEN at the historic moment in 1914 when Jehovah declares..." Also on pg. 90 "The birth of the Kingdom itself calls for a major war IN HEAVEN." Pg. 91 "Jesus overcomes Satan and his demons and hurls them down to earth. (Rev. 12:7-12) Jesus' ride of conquest continues through the opening DECADES of the Lord's day..." The Watchtower claims this "ride" started in 1914 and continued till 1945 (see page 91).
Q: Where was Jesus from 1914-1945?
A: In heaven fighting Satan and the demons.
Q: Who came to earth invisibly starting in 1914?
A: Satan and his demons were "hurled down to earth" during this time period.
The fact that Jesus was in heaven, and not invisibly on earth, is confirmed on pg. 96: "Jesus opens the fouth seal..." The date given that corresponds to this is 1918. Jesus was still in heaven as late as 1918.
Again on pgs. 100-102 the Watchtower confirms that Jesus is still in heaven. "...Jesus Christ breaks open the fifth seal..." This is dated as 1935. "Since 1935 faithful young men have borne the brunt of persecution in many lands."
Rev. 9:1 A star falls to earth. Rev. book pg. 143 says "And the star must symbolize Jehovah's appointed King, since anointed Christians acknowledge only one angelic King, Jesus Christ." When did this occur? Page 144 says "That is how it proved to be in 1919." This cannot be correct, since Jesus was still in heaven fighting demons until 1945. In addition, 1919 is five years later than the supposed date of 1914!
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WT Says Jehovah a mistake
by garybuss in"as to the old testament name of god, certainly the spelling and pronunciation "jehovah" were originally a blunder.
(the bible in living english, 1972, p.7, watch tower bible and tract society of pennsylvania) .
what's the deal?
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thinker
From the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures:
pg. 11 "The exact pronunciation of the name is not known today, but the most popular way of rendering it is "Jehovah."
pg. 23 "While inclining to view the pronunciation "Yah-weh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century."
written and published by the WTBTS in 1969.
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Need Info on JW's Scandals in Mexico-
by Cappuccino OC inmany years ago i heard that the jw's in mexico weren't allowed to sing songs or pray at the meetings due to the government not wanting to recognize them as a 'religion'.
is this true?
then i heard that jehovah helped them and now they are recognized as a religion and they can sing & have prayers in meetings.
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thinker
Larry,
No, but I'm the original here.