Posts by prologos

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

prologos

Anders Anderson, I hope that our personal exchange retains some relevance to the OP theme.

Given the soft, low energy use of "life", it is surprising that so little results are shown since Louis Pasteur, and the unknown alchemist life - experiments before him; that is why many atheist are eager to champion the evolution process in their arguments, but reserve the "origin of life" for another , perhaps agnostic-favoring day.

My conviction about a deist creator was not shaped by WT indoctrination, but my earlier exposure to the difficult hands-on manufacturing in an desolate environment. If I read the science publications right, the thought is now that the nothing, the void of the pre-big bang realm, and the nothing that the universe is expanding into, (or rather the space that appears inside the universe through expansion.-- is seething with energy. and is subject to time, since seething is acceleration that has time^2.

"I am still puzzled about how you view life and 'god'." I am too, my idea under construction; puzzles are entertaining though. One could imagine as an illustration only, that non-organic artificial intelligence (like what we are working on) could be transported via radiation. So: before our beginning, there was energy, there was time, but can we grasp there it was, an eternity? do we have to? perhaps I see the creator as a great hobbyist that instilled a tremendous amount of drive to exist into his creation, here, the flowers are coming out -- driven. perceived to be beautiful.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

prologos

Ander Andersen: " If the demonstration of something is needed to verify it's factual correctness or possibility,-- I consider the attempts to replicate abiogenesis crucial, but in MHO success would only prove there needs to be an agent to do it, no matter how remote the "operator": In the same way I consider the proton accelerator experiments to be feelers to probe into the beginning of the universe's mechanism, not spontaneous events either.

The known natural laws break down in black holes. or white holes, where movement through time ceases. so it is wrong to reason about the pre-beginning BB realm in terms of those laws, like causation, the laws of thermodynamics. It is only since the " Big Bang" that matter is moving through time. so,if there is no movement, why should there have to be a beginning? an acceleration from Zero for any pre-Big Bang entity like the creator?. Therefore, while, your 6 constraining questions are based on conditions in our universe that is expanding through time, can I just have a try at the ones I see as relevant?

2) "god" is not alive in the organic sense, not acting , not tinkering now in the way defined by Newton, all potential is build into the original creation event. To us limited observers, they could forever appear self-generating, but are not because the inherent creation properties. a la Penrose.

3) divine? possibly not a good term. creation can be considered non-religious.

1. eternal implies no start. no movement through the time dimension.

2. as a deist, a worker, I believe there is a creator.

3. Once you enter ( in thought ) the pre-big bang realm, without our 3 dimensions, all the potential energy of the void, no movement through time, there is no difficulty to deal with the non-beginning of "god" questions.

45

What Are Your "Senior Moments" Like?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

dear friends:.

i imagine by now we old timers have adjusted to the fact that we are getting older and, one day, will make our exit.

are your "senior moments" ever a cause for worry to you?

prologos

Got up today after my afternoon nap, started the coffeemaker, without pouring the water, waited;--then I poured the water, and after the cycle discovered the urn is full of clear water again, so I poured it into the reservoir again.--but then I discover I had forgotten to put coffee into the filter, that is why the pot re-filled itself miraculously, well after it finally perked, and a sip or two, ah, it was off to my daily skate boarding, There is no fool like an old fool, forgetful fall fool.

25

Is a piano inevitable?

by slimboyfat in

i was at a concert last night and the presence and stature of the piano struck me.

and i thought: if the piano wasn't invented when it was, would it have been invented by someone else instead?

or if there was a world the same as our, except with a different history, would it have pianos now too or would it be modern world, similar in many respects, only without pianos?

prologos

Both the pipe organ and piano were invented about at the same time, and are based on resonators, strings, pipes that double in length for every octave with the intermediate sounds proportionally, allowing via a keyboard to produce many sounds simultaneously. It was bound to happen with us, re-creating humans on Earth, after all, the planetary orbits with their rhythms are also doubling in size and span 5 octaves like a piano keyboard.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

prologos

Ander Anderson: No, scientists are looking for explanations that fit the evidence already found., true in part, often though, they develop a hypothesis, Theory, an equation, and then look for evidence to see the resulting predictions verified.

I did not imply, that WT theories ever produced useful results, except prolonging the shelflife of their promises, but in their "new light" methodology resembles a quasi-scientific process, similar to the the one we saw emerging from Kepler's, Newton's and the Einstein's velocity laws. This gives the illusion that wt too, like science, pursues a search for truth, understanding of an underlying great eternal truth, whereas wt's house of cards is solely based on the discredited bible and their shifting internal view of "old worthies"; "anointed" " other sheep" . and Yes, there are scientists, even Nasa personnel*, that are theists, even Deists. and it has never been demonstrated, that the Universe created itself or that life arose spontaneously. Efforts to replicate he latter have failed so far, and examining the energy level of the former even on the smallest scale took great effort and ingenuity. * read Edgar Mitchell RIP.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

prologos

This evidence- based conviction of both Atheists and wt-believers is a great idea that emerged from this thread. Are atheists not convinced that the Universe made itself, that life is self-started? and they look for, manufacture (not faking) evidence to bolster their conviction, --through scientific research. WT believers bolster their convictions by manufactured data too. Looking for bible passages to prove their doctrines, adjusting their beliefs to fit new circumstances, Too many anointed, invent the great crowd. Generation of 1914 expired, invent the overlap. If God,s existence, his approval through money is waning,-- dip into real estate sales. dip into kid's ice cream at circus money.

126

FEB 2016 broadcast

by Grey Goose in

jw
friends

it might be the craziest one yet..

prologos

speaking in tongues? the anointed at Pentecost did!

8

MY Bethel Experience Part 17

by new boy in

more "odds and ends".

i liked lyman swingle (governing body member)......he was from alabama, he knew how to curse at the right time.

i think, that’s why i went to him, when i was having so much trouble with my future wife’s parents.

prologos

what is "NC 17" please?

25

Preaching? For what purpose? All JW's need to ask this question.

by park ave boy in

what is the purpose of preaching if not for converts?.

basically, preaching by the jw's is to make converts.

this in itself implies that jehovah's witnesses believe that they alone have the only acceptable way to god and that everyone else is just not worthy.

prologos

the basic premise approaching the doors was: "we are right, and you are wrong!" and we can prove it with a four scripture "sermon" or the "make sure" book. Jws certainly can not recommend the "love"in the congregation. so what is left?

14

Overlapping "Kinds"...Coming soon to a Watchtower near you?

by juandefiero in

putting on my carnac hat here.. let's say the evidence for evolution becomes so overwhelming that the society eventually has to accept it due to much turmoil in the congregations.

how do they do so without saying they've been wrong?.

why, redefine a word, of course!

prologos

cofty: "Therefore there was no Adam, no perfection and no fall. Therefore their version of the Ransom falls apart. and with it the guilt tripping of having to work harder to be worthy of the ransom's application via obedience to the organisation. May be that is their major writing project to come up with a flawed existence via evolution that needs their ministration to bring about perfection.