church knew much about people's background and use it for blackmail and intelligence gathering. and because some elder's wives sit in the ""confession booth" with their husbands, they set the tone for the power games in the congregations, here too, the members "pay the price".
prologos
JoinedPosts by prologos
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4
It is the thought that counts
by Fisherman inspain was one of those countries that was more catholic than the pope.
and back in medieval times people had no choice but to go to mass and confession and be good catholics –or else.
anyway, back in them days, in spain, when someone went to confess their sins to a priest, it was face to face.
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Things JW's and Atheists have in common
by juandefiero ini was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
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prologos
Cofty:Really? Have you not kept up with recent progress in physics and chemistry regarding abiogenesis?
No, sorry, but I have not, but I realize, every step in bio-research that I read about brings us closer to understanding the life process of using energy and the functioning of the beginning of the memory/ modification aspect of life. I am hoping like you to see the big breakthrough. It will be interesting how Atheists and believers will react when it happens.
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Things JW's and Atheists have in common
by juandefiero ini was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
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prologos
David_Jay Laws of physics only apply in the temporal plane, being products of creation --beginning" implies a linear timeline, --- If I may amend those terms to my world view. : Time" is a dimension that existed before our beginning, and it is accepted, that space, it's content started moving through time at the big bang. Time is eternal and stationary, we, as observed, move through it at different rates. The temporal plane I read in your text looks to me like a curved sphere expanding outward through time. Can both believers and atheists agree to that? -
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Things JW's and Atheists have in common
by juandefiero ini was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
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prologos
Anders Anderson, I hope that our personal exchange retains some relevance to the OP theme.
Given the soft, low energy use of "life", it is surprising that so little results are shown since Louis Pasteur, and the unknown alchemist life - experiments before him; that is why many atheist are eager to champion the evolution process in their arguments, but reserve the "origin of life" for another , perhaps agnostic-favoring day.
My conviction about a deist creator was not shaped by WT indoctrination, but my earlier exposure to the difficult hands-on manufacturing in an desolate environment. If I read the science publications right, the thought is now that the nothing, the void of the pre-big bang realm, and the nothing that the universe is expanding into, (or rather the space that appears inside the universe through expansion.-- is seething with energy. and is subject to time, since seething is acceleration that has time^2.
"I am still puzzled about how you view life and 'god'." I am too, my idea under construction; puzzles are entertaining though. One could imagine as an illustration only, that non-organic artificial intelligence (like what we are working on) could be transported via radiation. So: before our beginning, there was energy, there was time, but can we grasp there it was, an eternity? do we have to? perhaps I see the creator as a great hobbyist that instilled a tremendous amount of drive to exist into his creation, here, the flowers are coming out -- driven. perceived to be beautiful.
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Things JW's and Atheists have in common
by juandefiero ini was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
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prologos
Ander Andersen: " If the demonstration of something is needed to verify it's factual correctness or possibility,-- I consider the attempts to replicate abiogenesis crucial, but in MHO success would only prove there needs to be an agent to do it, no matter how remote the "operator": In the same way I consider the proton accelerator experiments to be feelers to probe into the beginning of the universe's mechanism, not spontaneous events either.
The known natural laws break down in black holes. or white holes, where movement through time ceases. so it is wrong to reason about the pre-beginning BB realm in terms of those laws, like causation, the laws of thermodynamics. It is only since the " Big Bang" that matter is moving through time. so,if there is no movement, why should there have to be a beginning? an acceleration from Zero for any pre-Big Bang entity like the creator?. Therefore, while, your 6 constraining questions are based on conditions in our universe that is expanding through time, can I just have a try at the ones I see as relevant?
2) "god" is not alive in the organic sense, not acting , not tinkering now in the way defined by Newton, all potential is build into the original creation event. To us limited observers, they could forever appear self-generating, but are not because the inherent creation properties. a la Penrose.
3) divine? possibly not a good term. creation can be considered non-religious.
1. eternal implies no start. no movement through the time dimension.
2. as a deist, a worker, I believe there is a creator.
3. Once you enter ( in thought ) the pre-big bang realm, without our 3 dimensions, all the potential energy of the void, no movement through time, there is no difficulty to deal with the non-beginning of "god" questions.
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What Are Your "Senior Moments" Like?
by compound complex indear friends:.
i imagine by now we old timers have adjusted to the fact that we are getting older and, one day, will make our exit.
are your "senior moments" ever a cause for worry to you?
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prologos
Got up today after my afternoon nap, started the coffeemaker, without pouring the water, waited;--then I poured the water, and after the cycle discovered the urn is full of clear water again, so I poured it into the reservoir again.--but then I discover I had forgotten to put coffee into the filter, that is why the pot re-filled itself miraculously, well after it finally perked, and a sip or two, ah, it was off to my daily skate boarding, There is no fool like an old fool, forgetful fall fool.
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Is a piano inevitable?
by slimboyfat ini was at a concert last night and the presence and stature of the piano struck me.
and i thought: if the piano wasn't invented when it was, would it have been invented by someone else instead?
or if there was a world the same as our, except with a different history, would it have pianos now too or would it be modern world, similar in many respects, only without pianos?
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prologos
Both the pipe organ and piano were invented about at the same time, and are based on resonators, strings, pipes that double in length for every octave with the intermediate sounds proportionally, allowing via a keyboard to produce many sounds simultaneously. It was bound to happen with us, re-creating humans on Earth, after all, the planetary orbits with their rhythms are also doubling in size and span 5 octaves like a piano keyboard. -
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Things JW's and Atheists have in common
by juandefiero ini was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
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prologos
Ander Anderson: No, scientists are looking for explanations that fit the evidence already found., true in part, often though, they develop a hypothesis, Theory, an equation, and then look for evidence to see the resulting predictions verified.
I did not imply, that WT theories ever produced useful results, except prolonging the shelflife of their promises, but in their "new light" methodology resembles a quasi-scientific process, similar to the the one we saw emerging from Kepler's, Newton's and the Einstein's velocity laws. This gives the illusion that wt too, like science, pursues a search for truth, understanding of an underlying great eternal truth, whereas wt's house of cards is solely based on the discredited bible and their shifting internal view of "old worthies"; "anointed" " other sheep" . and Yes, there are scientists, even Nasa personnel*, that are theists, even Deists. and it has never been demonstrated, that the Universe created itself or that life arose spontaneously. Efforts to replicate he latter have failed so far, and examining the energy level of the former even on the smallest scale took great effort and ingenuity. * read Edgar Mitchell RIP.
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Things JW's and Atheists have in common
by juandefiero ini was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
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prologos
This evidence- based conviction of both Atheists and wt-believers is a great idea that emerged from this thread. Are atheists not convinced that the Universe made itself, that life is self-started? and they look for, manufacture (not faking) evidence to bolster their conviction, --through scientific research. WT believers bolster their convictions by manufactured data too. Looking for bible passages to prove their doctrines, adjusting their beliefs to fit new circumstances, Too many anointed, invent the great crowd. Generation of 1914 expired, invent the overlap. If God,s existence, his approval through money is waning,-- dip into real estate sales. dip into kid's ice cream at circus money. -
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prologos
speaking in tongues? the anointed at Pentecost did!
