recently, i was speaking with an older brother who is well into his 80's and is a widower.
he explained to me that it is tough getting old and that "nothing works right anymore".
he told me that he was able to get through his 70's with few problems.
their collective belief was based on billions dying horribly at Armageddon before this small select group got their eternal life in a paradise. that express feeling was reserved toward what jws. saw as opposers, recalcitrant house holders. I do not think any witness cherished the hope to have to clean up for 7 years the stinking mess on voluntary burial detail.
yeah, and the heard and preached the message: "you will not die";--- have you read that line somewhere before?
recently, i was speaking with an older brother who is well into his 80's and is a widower.
he explained to me that it is tough getting old and that "nothing works right anymore".
he told me that he was able to get through his 70's with few problems.
while thinking about the nature of god, i suddenly thought of something else: how jw speak about god in relation to the universe.. they say that.
jehovah created the universe.
destroying satan and answering the questions that were raised in eden will restore peace and unity in the whole universe.. .
WT believers seem to be subject to a whole spectrum of teachings in the bible about "god". Those go from him walking during the breezy part of the day in the Garden of Eden to the idea expressed at the temple dedication that even the "heavens of the heavens" (whatever that means) can not contain him.
as to the OP question, The universe seems to strongly controlled by the laws that govern nature, they shape the shapes and mold the behaviour of life forms even. My simplistic argument (for what it's worth) in the "service" was: --The existence of laws are always the sign of [some] intelligence, even if our laws are an ass. so: since we have laws in the universe, there must be an intelligence behind it.-- Was it not Einstein that pondered the question whether "the lord" had any choice in shaping those laws?
spain was one of those countries that was more catholic than the pope.
and back in medieval times people had no choice but to go to mass and confession and be good catholics –or else.
anyway, back in them days, in spain, when someone went to confess their sins to a priest, it was face to face.
i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
Cofty:Really? Have you not kept up with recent progress in physics and chemistry regarding abiogenesis?
No, sorry, but I have not, but I realize, every step in bio-research that I read about brings us closer to understanding the life process of using energy and the functioning of the beginning of the memory/ modification aspect of life. I am hoping like you to see the big breakthrough. It will be interesting how Atheists and believers will react when it happens.
i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
Anders Anderson, I hope that our personal exchange retains some relevance to the OP theme.
Given the soft, low energy use of "life", it is surprising that so little results are shown since Louis Pasteur, and the unknown alchemist life - experiments before him; that is why many atheist are eager to champion the evolution process in their arguments, but reserve the "origin of life" for another , perhaps agnostic-favoring day.
My conviction about a deist creator was not shaped by WT indoctrination, but my earlier exposure to the difficult hands-on manufacturing in an desolate environment. If I read the science publications right, the thought is now that the nothing, the void of the pre-big bang realm, and the nothing that the universe is expanding into, (or rather the space that appears inside the universe through expansion.-- is seething with energy. and is subject to time, since seething is acceleration that has time^2.
"I am still puzzled about how you view life and 'god'." I am too, my idea under construction; puzzles are entertaining though. One could imagine as an illustration only, that non-organic artificial intelligence (like what we are working on) could be transported via radiation. So: before our beginning, there was energy, there was time, but can we grasp there it was, an eternity? do we have to? perhaps I see the creator as a great hobbyist that instilled a tremendous amount of drive to exist into his creation, here, the flowers are coming out -- driven. perceived to be beautiful.
i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.
to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.
i realized, atheists believe these things too!.
Ander Andersen: " If the demonstration of something is needed to verify it's factual correctness or possibility,-- I consider the attempts to replicate abiogenesis crucial, but in MHO success would only prove there needs to be an agent to do it, no matter how remote the "operator": In the same way I consider the proton accelerator experiments to be feelers to probe into the beginning of the universe's mechanism, not spontaneous events either.
The known natural laws break down in black holes. or white holes, where movement through time ceases. so it is wrong to reason about the pre-beginning BB realm in terms of those laws, like causation, the laws of thermodynamics. It is only since the " Big Bang" that matter is moving through time. so,if there is no movement, why should there have to be a beginning? an acceleration from Zero for any pre-Big Bang entity like the creator?. Therefore, while, your 6 constraining questions are based on conditions in our universe that is expanding through time, can I just have a try at the ones I see as relevant?
2) "god" is not alive in the organic sense, not acting , not tinkering now in the way defined by Newton, all potential is build into the original creation event. To us limited observers, they could forever appear self-generating, but are not because the inherent creation properties. a la Penrose.
3) divine? possibly not a good term. creation can be considered non-religious.
1. eternal implies no start. no movement through the time dimension.
2. as a deist, a worker, I believe there is a creator.
3. Once you enter ( in thought ) the pre-big bang realm, without our 3 dimensions, all the potential energy of the void, no movement through time, there is no difficulty to deal with the non-beginning of "god" questions.
dear friends:.
i imagine by now we old timers have adjusted to the fact that we are getting older and, one day, will make our exit.
are your "senior moments" ever a cause for worry to you?
Got up today after my afternoon nap, started the coffeemaker, without pouring the water, waited;--then I poured the water, and after the cycle discovered the urn is full of clear water again, so I poured it into the reservoir again.--but then I discover I had forgotten to put coffee into the filter, that is why the pot re-filled itself miraculously, well after it finally perked, and a sip or two, ah, it was off to my daily skate boarding, There is no fool like an old fool, forgetful fall fool.
i was at a concert last night and the presence and stature of the piano struck me.
and i thought: if the piano wasn't invented when it was, would it have been invented by someone else instead?
or if there was a world the same as our, except with a different history, would it have pianos now too or would it be modern world, similar in many respects, only without pianos?
