Posts by prologos

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

F: "--the ingathering continues, -- so in your view, is the 1935 generation destined to be declared overlapping too? (did not Rutherford in 1935 say at an assembly: " Behold the Great Multitude?") then and there? ?did you get the point though,

Wt predicts that the "anointed" generation will not see "all the things " before they pass away, gathered to heaven, before Armageddon. But that contradicts what Jesus, who said : The disciples, that generation really, will " NOT PASS AWAY" until the destruction is finished. Which was the case in the real fulfillment. The apostles walked.

The wt "anointed" generation is already a degenerate teaching before we even see how it fails in its simple final fulfillment.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

Vh: "The generation Jesus was referring to was His own. We understand Vanderhoven, and that talk has it's own problems. we are discussing the wt's generation permutations.

The Jesus generation prophecy had the "anointed" ak Christians survive all these things, the destruction, "--flee to the mountains--" in the latest

Wt generation prediction, the "anointed" do not survive even the first stage, let alone the final destruction, they are rapture before it all ends. and that is only the predictions, We are discussing the reality, the happenings, and the generations no matter how you slice them are all going, they are not seeing "all these things that are destined to occur". that is why we demur.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

Fisherman: "--the great crowd must not only mean surving because of conduct but also age. ---the two go hand in hand, with good genes, (mating habits of your ancestors) and clean living and diet, you can live to ~100, I know one member here , (alive, remembering the 1936 Olympics) who, with those lucky breaks would get him close to the next speculation milestone 1914+120=2034, but Rev 7 speaks of a Great crowd, not a few wheezers in wheelchairs, so:--great like the 1958 NY assembly perhaps? not! and:

to survive you have to be loyal, even if it seems not logical by human standards, maybe if you could survive, but if your testament does not leave your wealth to the wt, (and the angels can read that) are you living up to your vow? You may be a sheep (other or not), but if you are not ready to be shorn, you might not become part of the Great Crowd. am I ever glad that there never was a talking snake or donkey.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

Was the 1935 " great multitude" event not a case of 'Vox populi, vox dei' ? believing that the 144 000 started with the 12 apostles, the 120 pentecostals, the exclusive "anointed " club had run out of places, too many partakers. so, dovetailing with the "millions will never die--" idea, They proposed this new earthly branch of sub-christianity, catering to the demand.

Unless wt will declare the 144 000 to be sealed only "in the Lord's day" since 1914, (they have done that to the F&DS after all, cancelling the 12 apostles & Paul), it is clear, that the church expected a new Heavens, but also a New Earth, a fleshly resurrection, and a sealing of rulers, priest out of the general populace during all that time. Wt took it to the extreme, making for a really very crowded Earth (despite paradise illustrations) and a very empty heavens, bigger than the Universe, but with 144 000 newcomers only. vox populi, vox dei. ?

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

I would say there are three classes in wt doctrines here, 1) The 144 000; --2) the Great after Armageddon Crowd, 3) all those that died before Armageddon, that are resurrected to Earth, aka OS.

In Jw's mind, those witnesses that die now were wrongly called members of the great Crowd, but were definitely Other Sheep.

Would not any member of a Christian church, not of the wt 144 00 , that died be an OS too? since until 1918, the members of all those churches were considered more or less "True Christians" under scrutiny ..,--- until they were rejected by Christ in favour of Rutherford Inc? and:

is here a name in wt parlance that is a catch all for general resurrection candidates?

16

It is now official: Another falsified Watchtower prophecy

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

"jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began.

... even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today.

" awake!

prologos

Lieu: "Whomever is a part of the "generation" has to see everything occur, not just some of it.

Zappa-Esque: "Of course those stats [ thank you so much for the research! ] are now of now consequence anyway as that teaching [Truth ] is no longer Truth !

The anointed generation could never see everything occurring, according to new [Truth], even with overlap.

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

F: in order to come out of the gt or survive they must exist as a gc beforehand. not true, they have to, of course, exist as individuals, but to say in unison : " we owe salvation -- " the common experience makes them into the great crowd. and because they never partook of the emblems, they are looking forward to 1000 years of work to earn their salvation. wt has it all worked out how to make people work,-- another generation--

241

Another generation....

by joey jojo in

it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

prologos

wt April 15 1995 page 31, par. 3: "--Revelation 7:9 is describing this crowd after the tribulation, we ---" bold added for emphasis. It is twisting the scriptures to say the great crowd survives , or exists as an entity before the great tribulation.
F: "The year 1935 marked a dramatic change that affected future Memorial observances,, yeah, It introduced the "deny the Christ", -pass the emblems- period. In John 6 Jesus said to partake is essential to get everlasting life, ( the earthly gift); wt writers will deny them that, by substituting: partaking will impart immortality and that for the "anointed" only.

1935 changed wt doctrine little, it is continuing heading south.

16

It is now official: Another falsified Watchtower prophecy

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

"jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the 'last days' began.

... even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today.

" awake!

prologos

Did wt not also declare these old prophecies to be intrinsically false when they introduced the "anointed" and then the underlapping overlapping groups anointed generation? without waiting for the supercentenarians to actually appear in the obituaries, thereby sealing the false! label, as pointed out in ILoveTTATT2's OP?

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

prologos

P: "--Since our space/time universe was caused, the cause is outside of space & time, a valid point, if you include the intended laws and energy, and it is spacetime bsw.

-P:--otherwise its own cause would precede it, placing it back in the space time universe,-- you lost us there, why, how do you think the cause would have to loop back through time into the universe?

P:--it is still yet to create... an illogical impossibility. --So, the whole notion of what is "natural" is placed beyond our space/time universe--" -- what is natural has to be within nature, nurtured in the big bang. What is before. or outside the beginning has to be ex-natural. or?