"----interaction of chemical, biological--" It could hardly be biological, because "bio" was still in the future, when all the fortuitous circumstances came together. No doubt if we could observe it now, it would look quite natural, because it is. Words do matter. I am referring to the Einstein conversations about Wirklichkeit, The Reality that has it's root in Werken, work. I am not a theist, but the existence we live in calls for more than random fluctuations as their origin, IMO
prologos
JoinedPosts by prologos
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90
Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life
by shadow indisclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.
yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.
i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.
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Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life
by shadow indisclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.
yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.
i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.
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prologos
Ander Andersen: And would your position change when we do find or replicate these processes? Or would you then claim that they are not representative and/or created by intelligent life?
Yes, we eagerly await a replication of the start of the single life starting event. The re-creation of the starting conditions, the presence of the near magic catalysts. Trying ever since Louis Pasteur, Harold Urey,- not with inorganic materials either. and: yes , while applauding the success, the thought might just occur, hey, this was not a random event at all, it was work done well, in a laboratory, from the word "labor" = work. it works, because it is work
PS. Am I wrong to remember reading, that the idea of multiverses was introduced in part, because the odds of life combining purely by random events could not have happened in this universe, it's short time of 13.8 billion years?
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90
Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life
by shadow indisclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.
yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.
i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.
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prologos
The process of the life starting event should somehow be still present and functioning in present day life, evolutionary processes. comparable to the energy, background radiation, we can still trace back to the begining events. -
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Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life
by shadow indisclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.
yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.
i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.
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prologos
Is it right to say that birth is part of puberty?. you said it. can there be birth without puberty somewhere along the line? puberty without birth? the same family of hormones? -
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Evolution Hole #1 - Origin of Life
by shadow indisclaimer: my graduate degree is in business, not science so i'm writing as a layman in this field.
yes, i know that someone is going to say that evolution does not encompass this topic and should be sectioned off under abiogenesis.
i'm not trying to argue semantics here but it seems like a case of avoiding an uncomfortable subject.
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prologos
why would it be wrong to say that the origin of the first and only life is the first step in the evolutionary process?
Does not the incorporation of sterile matter into a living being, and bringing it "up to speed" of life, show the close connection between two? are we not all in danger of passing back into the pre-abiogenesis condition within minutes ourselves ?
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What are the biggest holes in evolution?
by shadow inhow honest are the proponents of evolution?
idk but curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?
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prologos
Mephis, thanks for the link. will read later. : "--vanishes into an infinity of successively more powerful gods. " No, my argument is: there is no need for a succession, turtles down or "gods" up. What my thoughts were is, that there is no question about the success of the evolution process, but there is the hole of it's origin, possibly leading past the beginning into the pre-big-bang era. Penrose-style perhaps.
PS: The propensity of matter, that, following the laws it observes, to generate, and preserve changes that lead to such elegant life forms, would merit a Nobel, or two, if achieved, or replicated by humans.
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What I thought CLAM meant , can you think of anymore ?
by smiddy infor a while there i was confused as to what clam stood for .. ideas that crossed my mind .
christ left a ministry , or meeting .
children`s lives are mine .....( pedo`s in the borg ).
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prologos
Clueless Laboring at Asinine Ministry
Curiously Limiting Average Minds !
Could Longer Attentionspan Materialize?
Can Lurkers Already Morphing?
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133
What are the biggest holes in evolution?
by shadow inhow honest are the proponents of evolution?
idk but curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?
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prologos
Mephis said: That's not an argument for a God though prologos. I was not arguing for the existence of any particular "god", but against the idea that the evolution process could have arisen without cause, however deep you would like to trace the turtles. Note that I mentioned :movement through time. . The big bang beginning model assumes there was no movement through time before spacetime. without movement through time, why would there have to be causality? As H. Truman said: The buck stops here . I buck= many turtles, --oh deer. -
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What are the biggest holes in evolution?
by shadow inhow honest are the proponents of evolution?
idk but curious to see what type of response there is on a topic like this or does their study only seek to confirm their preconceptions and ignore uncomfortable facts?
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prologos
One big hole is the idea, that the details of the evolution process that are so proudly presented, were so painstakingly discovered with so much ingenuity, are presented as the latest "truth"even named after their discoverers, without stopping to pause and think, that even a greater ingenuity would be required to create such a process in the first place, especially if automatically arising out of the original beginning event of movement through time, energy, space, laws. observing is easier than creating. has anything ever been observed that was not also created? evolution is easy, some aspects of the process can be observed as they happen. -
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A Thought Experiment
by InjusticeSystem ini am hoping some of you may be up for participating in a little creative thought experiment .
the question i would like to pose (and if it has already been asked i apologize, for some reason i cannot search for topics on my mobile) is this: what would the evidence show if the jehovah's witness' literal reading of genesis was true?
i realize that is a fairly broad question, but for example a more pointed question could be: if the vapor canopy hypothesis is correct (i have confirmed with my elder father that this is still a currently accepted understanding), what evidence in our genome or that of other creatures or on earth would we expect to see?
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prologos
ctrwtf : don't use that argument please, pushing the atmosphere up everywhere past Everest's summit, would have lowered the atmospheric pressure only as much as climbing to the third floor. There would be heat rather than cold. Enough nonsense in the flood story, no need to combat it by bad physics.