Posts by TMS

20

"Not of Our Sort" Part I

by TMS in

jw
friends

i am an old man.. this is a topic i have been comtemplating for some time as i continue in this transitional time of my life, reminiscing about my 50+ years with what some of you call the "borg", but i simply refer to as jehovah's witnesses.. good people i have known who loved god, but did not fit into the organizational scheme of things is the topic.

there will be at least three parts a la amazing.

this topic will sink out of sight like a rock, but it is therapeutic to write it and the contemplation brings a smile to my face.. my first subject is b.w.. b.w.

TMS

This topic was posted 6-1/2 years ago. I don't think anyone who originally posted to this thread still posts on JWD. Bill saw a need and fulfulled without asking permission. Our Kingdom Hall then some faded, sorry wooden letters. He replaced them with beautiful brass designating Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. He also replaced our primitive mail slot with a six slots for all of the major players at the Kingdom Hall including himself. He was barely regarded as a JW, so this was removed. (I was honored briefly to have my own mail slot at a very young age. LOL!) I mentioned in the thread the Town Hall restaurant. It was sort of a Chamber of Commerce, Rotary Club type restaurant. All the players in the city used it. Bill caught my wife and I there once. He found the waiter and changed our hamburger order to filet mignon. We were pioneers and I was making about $30.00 a week. Needless to say, we had never had filet mignon. Bill would sometimes convince people on the strength of his personal magnetism to visit the Kingdom Hall, but we never could retain them.

tms

20

"Not of Our Sort" Part I

by TMS in

jw
friends

i am an old man.. this is a topic i have been comtemplating for some time as i continue in this transitional time of my life, reminiscing about my 50+ years with what some of you call the "borg", but i simply refer to as jehovah's witnesses.. good people i have known who loved god, but did not fit into the organizational scheme of things is the topic.

there will be at least three parts a la amazing.

this topic will sink out of sight like a rock, but it is therapeutic to write it and the contemplation brings a smile to my face.. my first subject is b.w.. b.w.

TMS

I passed by Bill's old house yesterday. It's a little run down. He's been gone over thirty years now. He was such a square peg for our righteous theocratic round hole, but everyone accepted his generosity. I wish I had been a little older, wiser during that time. . . . . . . .He was such a do-er. After his divorce left him financially dry(by his own acquiesence), he rode a moped from Brownsville, TX to New York. . worked in construction for the summer. . made $20,000. . operating cranes, etc. This was the 60's. He set out on a worldwide tour of the branch facilities, etc. to make a non-sanctioned film for the Society. No one could talk him out of it. LOL! Just so much I could tell. . . .

tms

122

The Very Best "Protest" Songs?

by hillary_step in

hard to believe that jackson browne wrote this piece twenty-two years ago.

hard to believe just how apt it is for the modern america.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpfdbklumqk&feature=related.

laura nyro - save the country.

TMS

Just noticed this thread. . . . thanks Hillary. . . . . I was really into this genre in the 60's as it synced w/my JW beliefs(I thought).

One of my personal favorites:

Sky Pilot (The Animals)

He blesses the boys as they stand in line
The smell of gun grease and the bayonets they shine
He's there to help them all that he can
To make them feel wanted he's a good holy man
Sky pilot.....sky pilot
How high can you fly
You'll never, never, never reach the sky

He smiles at the young soldiers
Tells them its all right
He knows of their fear in the forthcoming fight
Soon there'll be blood and many will die
Mothers and fathers back home they will cry
Sky pilot.....sky pilot
How high can you fly
You'll never, never, never reach the sky

He mumbles a prayer and it ends with a smile
The order is given
They move down the line
But he's still behind and he'll meditate
But it won't stop the bleeding or ease the hate
As the young men move out into the battle zone
He feels good, with God you're never alone
He feels tired and he lays on his bed
Hopes the men will find courage in the words that he said
Sky pilot.....sky Pilot
How high can you fly

You'll never, never, never reach the sky
You're soldiers of God you must understand
The fate of your country is in your young hands
May God give you strength
Do your job real well
If it all was worth it
Only time it will tell

In the morning they return
With tears in their eyes
The stench of death drifts up to the skies
A soldier so ill looks at the sky pilot
Remembers the words
"Thou shalt not kill"
Sky pilot.....sky pilot
How high can you fly
You never, never, never reach the sky

37

Will Carnivorous Jehovah Establish A Vegetarian New World?

by TMS in

god jehovah has had a preoccupation, if not an obsession with meat.

although cain worked hard to produce an offering of vegetables, it was rejected because it was not meat.

priests were instructed to save certain cuts of meat for jehovah, the fatty portions.

TMS

Of course I was not trying to present what the Bible "teaches". That doesn't interest me anymore. My intent was to show what we as JW's believed and were taught. Personally, as a JW I was never certain of the New World being vegan. I usually showed my Bible Studies texts describing paradise menus including "dishes filled with marrow" or "joints and their marrow". Marrow seemed close enough to meat to somewhat open the door of meat-eating as a possibility.

Most of my adult years were spent in Arkansas and Texas, where meat eating and hunting are considered important even by JW's. It was difficult enough to ask potential disciples to give up Christmas, birthdays, etc. "No meat" might have been a deal breaker.

When the Watchtower came up with the "adjusted understanding" of Isaiah 11, applying it to the personality changes of individuals, they faced a real dilemna. To have reversed the "lion will eat straw like the bull" literal understanding would have nullified all the paradise art work. The cutesy stories about a little girl and the lion would have been mute. They came up with a compromise: primary application=figurative, secondary application=literal.

As to the "great evening meal of God" literalness, that concept has become more ludicrous as the world's population has grown. There's even some JW specualtion out there about Jehovah zapping most of the carcasses magically, leaving merely a ceremonial cleanup for the birds.

How difficult it would be to present all these Watchtower concepts with a straight face. It's embarrassing now to admit that I believed all this stuff for over fifty years.

tms

37

Will Carnivorous Jehovah Establish A Vegetarian New World?

by TMS in

god jehovah has had a preoccupation, if not an obsession with meat.

although cain worked hard to produce an offering of vegetables, it was rejected because it was not meat.

priests were instructed to save certain cuts of meat for jehovah, the fatty portions.

TMS

writetoknow:

No I actually get it. However, I wonder if you think when some one states another point of view that is argumentative?
No I don't practice going a long with a line of reasonings that is false. I don't believe bashing people or religion is productive. I do understand people being hurt and hateful for being mislead. I don't understand not getting past that and coming up to something higher then the people they hate.

No, writetoknow, you don't REALLY "get it". No people are being "hated" on this end. If you read the sum of my posts on JWD the last seven years, you will find most of them anecdotal, complimentary of many of the fine JW's I have known. To point out discrepancies in a religious book or hyprocracies in a cult is not an act of hating, but one of liberation. It's great that you're past the bitterness of having been mislead. But you pretty much have to have all your proverbial "ducks in a row" to prove a point on JWD. Just scattershooting cliche's as you've done proves nothing. You've been on JWD 7 months. In your case, lurking, reading, observing might serve you better than posting at this point in your learning process.

tms

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

TMS

AllTimeJeff,

I appreciate the articulate "pearls" you have thrown down.

tms

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

TMS

writetoknow:

I don't spend much time blaming the tooth fairy for my problems.

Nor should you. The tooth fairy didn't fry your brain.

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

TMS

writetoknow:

So my very deep question is why do you blame something that is make believe?

Please don't flatter yourself. Nothing you've said displays any logic, let alone depth.

tms

37

Will Carnivorous Jehovah Establish A Vegetarian New World?

by TMS in

god jehovah has had a preoccupation, if not an obsession with meat.

although cain worked hard to produce an offering of vegetables, it was rejected because it was not meat.

priests were instructed to save certain cuts of meat for jehovah, the fatty portions.

TMS

Can you prove from the bible there will be a physical paradise or is that something we are to obey because JW's say so?
I don't remember Christ talking much about the issue perhaps there is another version of Christ words that I don't know about?
In other words, 99% of the people involved in this topic already know that they were mislead so why the big issue of a new world order. Chirst kindom wasn't of this world - He being king of that kingdom should give some indication that he might have something to say about meat eaters!
Pauls stated the kindgom was not about eating and drinking - or perhaps I being trick into thinking that someone really believes the bible anyway?

As usual, you miss everything. I'm simply presenting the picture the Watchtower has painted over the years. The reader can decide if it makes sense or not. Why are you worried about what Paul or Jesus Christ have said on any subject if you don't believe the Bible? This is a Jehovah's Witness Discussion Board. We discuss what JW's have been taught and the rules and requirements of the religion among other things. You impress me as a person who is needlessly argumentative, whether you have a point to make or not, sort of a poor man's devil's advocate.

tms

62

Jehovah, the God of Justice, Executes the Wicked

by TMS in

the phrases still roll off my tongue, "a god of tender mercies", a god in whom there is no injustice", a god who "protects the little one.".

in spite of those worn out platitides, if i walked in to a court room and saw the name "jehovah god" in metallic letters on the door, i would ask my attorney to make a motion to have the judge recused.

i would prefer to take my judicial chances with any ticket-fixing, bribe-taking, alcoholic, mafia-controlled human judge than face the uneven, irrational and obscene judicial decisions made by god jehovah.. i cite the case of king david of israel.

TMS

writetoknow,

I would love to respond to any one of your thirteen posts to this topic but your arguments are all over the place, self-contradictory. If English is your second language, I understand. Sometimes its possible to miss the subtleties and implications when you struggle with the language.

With some hesitancy, I will quote one of your posts:

If my understanding is correct the post start with how unjust Jehovah is?

That is not really correct. My original post deals with how the Bible presents Jehovah. If you accept those incidents at FACE VALUE, Jehovah does not look good. If Jehovah authored the 66 books of the old and new testament, he signed off on those descriptions. If humans were simply attributing certain events to a deity they invented, so be it. My original point is very basic: Jehovah, the God of the Bible is unjust, merciless or those writing about him in the Bible are dishonest, liars. Either way, the Bible and the God it presents is not worthy of our life's devotion. tms ps: writetoknow: In your profile you state that you are a former elder, pioneer. . one who served in multiple congregations where "the need was great". You also state that you are a certified graphologist, handwriting expert, "Write To Know" being the name of your handwriting analysis business. A google search did turn up a company "Write to Know" in Portland, OR. The owner of that company is a woman, an elementary school teacher for 33 years, a graphologist since 1978. ??