Mythbuster,
Whether or not your JW teacher becomes upset is irrelevant. It's all about whether or not you want to live your life by the dictates of an obviously man-made religion.
tms
Posts by TMS
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12Do you know all of the Watchtower's failed predictions? I doubt it.
by TMS inas a longtime jw, i knew about 1925, 1975, the failed original expectation of 1914, etc.
in the first bible studies i conducted, we taught that the great tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" in 1918 on account of the chosen ones, that some flesh would be saved.
the great tribulation was said to have been in abeyance.
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12
Do you know all of the Watchtower's failed predictions? I doubt it.
by TMS inas a longtime jw, i knew about 1925, 1975, the failed original expectation of 1914, etc.
in the first bible studies i conducted, we taught that the great tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" in 1918 on account of the chosen ones, that some flesh would be saved.
the great tribulation was said to have been in abeyance.
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TMS
The list by Prominent Bethelite also includes a few very poorly phrased, ignorant Watchtower comments about black people. While some JWs might excuse these comments as reflecting the times, consider that this is supposedly from the "slave class" led by holy spirit.
1898
"God .. evidently has been a respecter of races, and has specially blessed and favored certain branches of the Aryan race in Europe and America.. the white race has been more abundantly blessed with the light of the Gospel than others .. the elect Church will probably be composed chiefly of the highly favored white race.." {EVOL 30-1}
1900
"There are probably as many as a hundred colored brethren on the Watch Tower lists, some of them very clear in the truth, and very earnest in its service, financially and other-wise .. [but they are not allowed to participate in the "pioneer work" as] although we have received letters from several of these, who had intended engaging in the volunteer work, expressing surprise that in the call for volunteers in the March 1, 1900 issue we restricted the inquiry to white Protestant churches. .. The reason is that so far as we are able to judge, colored people have less education than whites - many of them quite insufficient to permit them to profit by such reading as we have to give forth. Our conclusion therefore is based upon the supposition that reading matter distributed to a colored congregation would more than half of it be utterly wasted, and a very small percentage indeed likely to yield good results. We advise, therefore, that where the Watch Tower literature is introduced to colored people it be not by promiscuous circulation, but only to those who give evidence of some ear for the truth. We avoid, so far as possible, putting the pearls of present truth into the hands of the vicious and depraved .." {Zions Watchtower Apr 15 1900 122}
1900
"Though, once as black as charcoal, the Rev. Mr. Draper is now white. His people say that his color was changed in answer to prayer. . Many years ago Draper was employed by a fair-skinned man, and he was often heard to remark that if he could only be white like his employer, he would be happy. While in the white man's service Draper 'experienced' religion." {WR Oct 1 1900 2706} [Michael Jackson ceased to be a Jehovah's Witness in 1987]
1901
"'It too often happens that, while the negro rapidly masters the rules and regulations of the Christian religion, he still continues to be gross, immoral, and deceitful. They (missionaries) may have succeeded in turning their disciples into professing Catholics, Anglicans, or Baptists; but the impartial observer is surprised to find that adultery, drunkenness, and lying are more apparent among the converts than among their heathen brethren.' And again: 'I regret to say that, with a few - very rare - exceptions, those native African pastors, teachers, and catechists whom I have met have been all, more or less, bad men. They attempted to veil an unbridled immorality with an unblushing hypocrisy and a profane display of mouth-religion which, to an honest mind, seemed even more disgusting than the immorality itself. While it was apparent that not one particle of true religion had made its way into their gross minds, it was also evident that the spirit of sturdy manliness which was present in their savage forefathers found no place in their false, cowardly natures.." [Given as a quotation by Russell without adverse comment] {Zions Watchtower Aug 15 1901 266}
1902
"The Negro Not a Beast .. that Ham's characteristics which had led him to unseemly conduct disrespectful to his father, would be found cropping out later, inherited by his son, and prophetically he foretold that this degeneracy would mark the posterity of Canaan, degrading him, making him servile. We are not able to determine to a certainty that the sons of Ham and Canaan are negroes; but we consider that general view as probable as any other.. We are not to forget, either, that Africa is inhabited by various tribes or nations of negroes - some more and some less degraded than the average.. While it is true that the white race exhibits some qualities of superiority over any other, we are to remember that there are wide differences in the same Caucasian (Semitic and Aryan) family.. The secret of the greater intelligence and aptitude of the Caucasian undoubtedly in great measure is to be attributed to the commingling of blood amongst its various branches; and this was evidently forced in large measure by circumstances under divine control. It remains to be proven that the similar commingling of the various tribes of Chinese for several centuries would not equally brighten their intellects; and the same with the peoples of India and Africa." {Zions Watchtower Jul 15 1902 216}
1903
"The second runner, Cushi, or literally a Cushite - that is, a negro - was probably one of the king's household servants .." {Zions Watchtower Nov 1 1903 410-1}
1904
"Can The Ethiopian Change His skin color? No. But.. what the Ethiopian cannot do for himself God could readily do for him. The difference between the races of men .. have long been arguments against the solidarity of the human family. The doctrine of restitution has also raised the question. How could all men be brought to perfection and which color of skin was the original? The answer is now provided. God can change the Ethiopian's skin in his own due time.. Julius Jackson, of New Frankfort, Montana, a negro boy of nine years, began to grow white in September, 1901, and is now fully nine-tenths white. He assures us that this is no whitish skin disease; but that the new white skin is as healthy as that of any white boy, and that the changed boy has never been sick and never has taken medicines.." [and so God can and will change blacks to whites in the New World]" {Zions Watchtower Feb 15 1904 52-3}
tms
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12
Do you know all of the Watchtower's failed predictions? I doubt it.
by TMS inas a longtime jw, i knew about 1925, 1975, the failed original expectation of 1914, etc.
in the first bible studies i conducted, we taught that the great tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" in 1918 on account of the chosen ones, that some flesh would be saved.
the great tribulation was said to have been in abeyance.
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TMS
Magwitch,
There is a postcard photo of the Bethel Christmas meal in 1926 on the net. Included in the photo are Rutherford, Knorr and Franz. JWs celebrated Christmas until 1928. So much for that 1919 "inspection" of the faithful slave finding them spiritually clean. Interesting also in "the list" is the fact that the Watchtower as late as 1922 was still teaching that the last days and Christ's presence began in 1874.
tms
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12
Do you know all of the Watchtower's failed predictions? I doubt it.
by TMS inas a longtime jw, i knew about 1925, 1975, the failed original expectation of 1914, etc.
in the first bible studies i conducted, we taught that the great tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" in 1918 on account of the chosen ones, that some flesh would be saved.
the great tribulation was said to have been in abeyance.
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TMS
In the brackets below each quote you will find the source of the quote, either The Watchtower or WT publications.
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12
Do you know all of the Watchtower's failed predictions? I doubt it.
by TMS inas a longtime jw, i knew about 1925, 1975, the failed original expectation of 1914, etc.
in the first bible studies i conducted, we taught that the great tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" in 1918 on account of the chosen ones, that some flesh would be saved.
the great tribulation was said to have been in abeyance.
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TMS
As a longtime JW, I knew about 1925, 1975, the failed original expectation of 1914, etc. In the first Bible studies I conducted, we taught that the great tribulation began in 1914 but was "cut short" in 1918 on account of the chosen ones, that some flesh would be saved. The great tribulation was said to have been in abeyance. I sometimes used the comparison of the temporary calm as the eye of a hurricane passed over.
I had little idea the extent of failed prophecies until I read "The List" by a person who called himself Prominent Bethelite. For the newly associated on this board, here is the link to that list.
tms
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13
Woman Raised Jehovah's Witness awarded Rhodes Scholarship
by slimboyfat insorry if this has been posted already, i don't recall seeing it before.. .
http://www.wave3.com/global/story.asp?s=11554602.
first u of l woman awarded rhodes scholarshipposted:
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TMS
As Paul Harvey used to say: "Now, for the rest of the story!"
At the Kingdom Hall that includes Rush, KY, Monica is undoubtedly viewed as a failure. She ignored direction from the slave class, choosing instead to "use the world to the full." Monica's dad, if still an elder, has to walk a fine line. He must conceal his pride in his daughter's accomplishments, perhaps to the point of feigning disappointment. The publicity given to this will create some unrest in JW households in Kentucky. Some "special needs" talks may have to be given to suppress the rumbling.
As I watched the YouTube video, I couldn't help but think that Monica developed some of her communication skills in the Theocratic Ministry School. Her reference to JWs as an extremely fundamentalist group shows she is no longer one. Good for her. Great respect to her father for being a dad first, a JW second.
tms
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31
I have changed sides
by AK - Jeff inalmost imperceptible over time in some areas.. almost everything i ever believed, i have proven to be false.
almost every bit of my deep seated faith is uprooted by reason.. i am not bitter.
but i am quite reflective these days of how much i have changed.
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TMS
a You Tube link to John's song "God" for those unfamiliar"
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31
I have changed sides
by AK - Jeff inalmost imperceptible over time in some areas.. almost everything i ever believed, i have proven to be false.
almost every bit of my deep seated faith is uprooted by reason.. i am not bitter.
but i am quite reflective these days of how much i have changed.
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TMS
Jeff,
As I read your post the phrase "the dream is over" came to mind. The song "God" by John Lennon plays in my head from time to time.
GOD
God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain
I'll say it again
God is a concept
By which we measure
Our pain
I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality
The dream is over
What can I say?
The dream is over
Yesterday
I was the Dreamweaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
And so dear friends
You'll just have to carry on
The dream is over -
17
New Understanding Begets More Direction From The "Slave"
by TMS injehovah's name people have delighted in recent refinements in understanding coming through god's slave class at the direction of holy spirit.
these adjustments in thinking have at times required humility and reasonableness to be exhibited by longtime servants of jehovah.
consider, for example, the recent information showing that we could not put an exact timetable on the calling of those to serve along with christ jesus in the heavenly kingdom.
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TMS
"I had never thought of the underage aspect before!
Does all of Christendom serve grape juice like the Southern Baptist?"
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Yknot,
Obviously, someone at Watchtower is accomplished at spin. The Generation Not Passing Away Until ALL These Things Are Accomplished doctrine has been a huge motivator for JWs. The embarrassment of years since 1914 HAD to be addressed in some way. The '95 explanation of the "generation" was confusing and not very well thought out. The '95 explanation eliminated the time element, losing punch as an urgency stimulator.
This new understanding of the generation puts us squarely in the middle of the last days. Perhaps in 100 years the "king of the north" will hail from Mars.
tms
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17
New Understanding Begets More Direction From The "Slave"
by TMS injehovah's name people have delighted in recent refinements in understanding coming through god's slave class at the direction of holy spirit.
these adjustments in thinking have at times required humility and reasonableness to be exhibited by longtime servants of jehovah.
consider, for example, the recent information showing that we could not put an exact timetable on the calling of those to serve along with christ jesus in the heavenly kingdom.
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TMS
inbetween, Mythbuster, purplesofa, agonus: thanks. . .unfortunately, Watchtower-speak just roles off my forked tongue. Just pluggin' along, purps.
tms
ps: When I read the new generational change this evening, my mind started to wander as it always does. I kept thinking about a certain home-schooled 12 year old regular pioneer, who dressed, talked like an adult, commented in fake-deep, conducted the mid-week meetings for field service, etc. I could actually see him reading the Greek Scriptures as his own personal "letter", thinking about being with the Lord, etc. The congregation already hero-worshipped him and being of the heavenly calling would not be that big of a jump in stature.