TMS

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Posts by TMS

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  18

  THE MOVERS AND SHAKERS AT BETHEL

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  fyi--.

  & other personnel.

  writing correspondence personnel, patterson, ny (incomplete).

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  TMS

  Two close personal friends, who served at Bethel in the 50's discouraged me from making Bethel my goal.

  Charlie M. was a "Grizzly Adams" sort, who at the age of 14 would spend a whole week in the woods, tenting, hunting and fending for himself. He was soft-spoken, intelligent and a deep lover of Jehovah. His parents were Regular Pioneers, although his dad was legally blind.

  Charlie resigned from Bethel about 1959 and returned to the northwest. He said very little about Bethel life, but simply said: "This is an organization of imperfect people." He told me: "XXX, you can do a lot more good at people's door with the Bible in your hand."

  Another close friend, George P., was at Bethel in the early 50's, suffering a breakdown. Today, he would be called bi-polar. He remained an intermittant witness for a number of years, but did not recommend Bethel service to me.

  My impression was that serving at Bethel de-mystified the organization to young men, putting everything on almost a secular level. I believe, subconsiously, this was why I never wanted to visit Bethel,(although I did stop briefly as a teen-ager after the 1958 assembly.)

  The stories, anecdotes, juicy tidbits(Harley Miller's colored shirts in the 70's)flowing out of the Society's headquarters made we wince.

  Let the Bethel boys print the books. I'll just place and explain them.

  TMS
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  50

  Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

  by OlderTom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

  my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

  today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

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  TMS

  Had Enough:

  Judicial committees are commissioned, not only, to observe repentance, but to "move to repentance, by readjusting the sinner". Their primary goal is to restore their brother.

  My son appealed his disfellowshipping. While he was sitting in the second school, he heard the appeal committee tell the original committee: "We think he is repentant."

  For the next two and a half hours he listened through the walls as the chairman of the original committee chastised the appeal committee in a loud voice to not undermine their decision. Needless to say, he came away from that process a little shaken in his confidence in divine direction.

  TMS
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  50

  Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

  by OlderTom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

  my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

  today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

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  TMS

  Had Enough:

  Your actions were consistant with a daughter who loved her parents, dearly.

  Our son waded through four reinstatement hearings and attended every meeting for two years before his 10 minute reinstatement.

  I am convinced his primary motivation was the "guilt" he felt and the hurt he observed in his parents.

  The irony is that Watchtower policy brought our family closer together, inadvertantly.

  TMS
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  17

  Why I had no choice..and why it's not any easier.

  by LDH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first of all, i'd like to say a warm hello to everyone here.

  i'm going to try to be coherent in this post, but if i should stray, please forgive me.

  i hope you'll enjoy what i'm about to say; i look forward to reading your responses.

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  TMS

  Lisa:

  B4 I ever realized what ur JW status was, I sensed the great job u were doing with ur daughter.

  My wife and I have this conversation every morning: "Were we good parents? Were we out of balance becuz of being super-zealous Witnesses?"

  We have a great son, but he is no circuit overseer. He is quiet, contemplative. He takes care of us in every way.

  We just wish we could have given him a more balanced, normal life as you are giving ur daughter.

  TMS
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  50

  Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

  by OlderTom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

  my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

  today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

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  TMS

  Just had to reply to these words from Had Enough:

  "My own beloved father had his over-40 years as an elder washed down the tubes because he too took in his df’d daughter (me) who had no where to live until I could find a job."
  ______________________________________________________________________

  There is a Watchtower reference(I do not have the energy to look it up), deferring to the right of a family head to take a df'd offspring in, based on psychological, financial or other considerations that would pose a threat to that descendant's survival. I made it clear to the body of elders that I was exercising that "loophole" and no one said a word.

  But, again, this type of reference, in actual practice, is merely spin. There is a time-honored elder principle: Your conscience may permit you to do something(see voting), but OUR consciences may not permit us to recommend you for special privileges.

  Thus, a father who takes in a disfellowshipped son or daughter, regardless of the circumstances, is committing organizational suicide.

  TMS
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  50

  Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

  by OlderTom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

  my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

  today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

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  TMS

  Hester:

  My feeble attempts at humor have gotten me in trouble twice on this single thread. The Watchtower articles I cited were ficticious, although similar to zillions most of us have studied over the years.

  My point was that beautiful words do not mask ugly actions.

  Sorry, again, for not expressing myself clearly.

  TMS
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  50

  Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

  by OlderTom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

  my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

  today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

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  TMS

  Patio, I was being semi-facetious, thought use of the phrase "wax eloquent" would indicate the family-support words have a hollow ring.

  My post had to be aborted, but I just threw those concepts into the ring.

  My own personal experience in a nutshell:

  48 years as a baptized witness, 35 years as an elder/congregation servant/overseer, etc. All those "privileges" came to a crashing halt 8 years ago, when I made an instantaneous decision to allow an "adult" son, DF'd for what amounted to stupid childish vandalism, to live with my wife and I.

  Never have I regretted that decision, but it changed our lives drastically and permanently.

  By throwing those quotes into the mix, I gave the wrong impression. Believe me I am well aware of the affect Watchtower policy has on the family.

  TMS
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  50

  Does the Watchtower break up famelies?

  by OlderTom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my word it does.. when i started studying with the witlesses all of my family and inlaws deserted me for following a stupit cult.

  my wife divorced me and my children won't talk to me.. that's ok because according to jdubs that proves it's the truth.. as i progressed in "the truth(tm)" all my friends started to abandon me because i was always going to those booring meetings.. when i found someone i liked in "the truth" and started associating with her, some of my witness friends tried to break up the friendship.. ie break up another family before it even starts.. after i married her without getting the elder permission, some of my jdub friends tried to df me, to show how much they loved me.. when they failed to df me some of my witless friends decided to shun me anyway even though the elders pronounced us no guilty.. i should have sued the bastards for slander.

  today i'd just give him (the instigator) a good hiding.

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  TMS

  Watchtower study articles abound, featuring titles along the lines of: "Strengthening the Family Unit", "Fathers, Do Not Be Exasperating Your Children", "Caring For Aged Ones".

  The "Truth/Knowledge" books waxed eloquent about the application of Bible principles making "better husbands and fathers, wives and mothers, sons and daughters", etc.

  TMS
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  23

  Things to do when they come knocking

  by Skimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i encourage people not to either verbally or physically harass jws when they come knocking on the door.. saying this, i recognize that it is ever so tempting to try the following:.

  1) answering the door wearing a t-shirt with a logo such as "satan rules", "member of the evil slave class", and "1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, what's next?".

  2) answering the door wearing only underwear (or less).. 3) dropping a name of some governing body member and suggesting that you got to know him when he and you were in jail together, and then ask if they know if he's stopped some particular filthy habit.. 4) answering the door while brandishing a pitchfork.. 5) say that you're so glad they came and that it's good for people to have an open mind about their religion and to be willing to change; once you get them excited with this, show them a copy of the wtbts failed prophecy list (backed by quotes from their own literature) and ask if they are open minded as well.. 6) as most jws have never looked at a copy of _studies in the scriptures_, tell them that you've gotten many of your religious beliefs by pyramidology; then show them a copy of _sits_ and point to the wtbts copyright notice.. i have #5 and #6 ready for the next visit.

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  TMS

  This type of post is never humorous to me. Treating individual witnesses of Jehovah capriciously would not make my day. It would actually be a form of self-betrayal, considering the hundreds of thousands of doors I have knocked on in 48 years of field ministry.

  Honestly, the approaches suggested in this thread would not embarrass or intimidate a veteran witness.

  Recently, two LDS missionaries approached me in my yard. As they neared I was struck by their obvious youth and it occurred they could just as easily be two young pioneers. We visited for 30 minutes or so and I probed them gently about baptism of the dead and the Book of Mormon. They were very respectful of me and politely excused themselves.

  TMS
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  52

  Your Top Ten Books

  by GinnyTosken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i love the book lists on amazon; i get lost in them for hours.

  recently someone asked me for book recommendations, and i thought it would be fun if we shared our lists of top ten books that helped us think our way out of the jw dogma.

  im putting aside the obvious ones, like crisis of conscience and apocalypse delayed.. heres my list, in the order i discovered them as best i can recall.. ginny.

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  TMS

  "Last of the Mohicans" James Fennimore Cooper

  "For Whom the Bell Tolls" Ernest Hemmingway

  "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God" Frederick Franz

  "Animal Farm" George Orwell

  "Golf" Tommy Armour

  "Life-How Did It Get Here. . By Evolution or by Creation?"

  TMS