Amazing, now that the apostates have been flushed they are back to the serious question of who plays the guitar. The Guardian board is getting active and it looks like it's attracting newcomers from the UK judging by the genteel level of abuse: smugface
Trilobite
JoinedPosts by Trilobite
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76
Single Witness club on Yahoo clubs
by slipnslidemaster inhttp://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/singlewitnesses.
let the hilarity ensue... i've already started over there, i think you should too.. slipnslidemaster:"and now about the cauldron sing, like elves and fairies in a ring, enchanting all that you put in.".
- william shakespeare, macbeth
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JWs reasons for the UN fiasco
by AMarie inbefore i get started, please let me emphasize that i am not a witness nor ever will be again.
many of their policies are crooked and underhanded.
however, i did some more research on the un thing and found out valid reasons why the wtbts joined.
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Trilobite
Amanda,
Apart from all the other comments, most of which I generally agree with, then why doesn't the WTS simply issue a press release that explains why it joined and why it left?
Also, why is it that the average JW refuses to accept that even a casual link (which this is not) could exist.
Your points are well taken, but if you've never been a JW it is hard to understand how significant this is.
T.
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E-Petitions etc
by Trilobite ini apologize for harping on the same theme; however, i feel that at this juncture we need to step up the heat.
merely talking amongst ourselves is not going to achieve too much.
the un/wts issue, together with silentlambs and ajwrb, presents, in my view, the greatest opportunity in a long time for getting results.
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Trilobite
last, desperate, attempt to get people to put their money where their mouth is. After this, I'm outta here.
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Do The Math II
by silentlambs inthe following is a few emails i exchanged with carlos mora.
i ask you to read them and see if you might find a better way to appeal to someone with this mind set.
perhaps it will help to understand the way a good portion of jws will reason on the child molestation issue.
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Trilobite
Bill,
Again, the obivous response is that the Society could make a small "mathematical" change which would change the supposed "handful" into a negligible amount. The responses you have already received show an ignorance of both statistics and humanity.
On a bigger note: the way we operate is crap. AJWRB has failed, so far, partly because it was so hesitant about soliciting money. Will silentlambs be the same? I hope not. The JW mindset prevails even after we think we are free.
Fuck, Bill, what bigger issues could we have; what more "opportune time"? Set up a giant paypal account, run by you, at your ultimate discretion, but accepting suggestions from all who donate, and not confined to to a single issue. Lee Elder is all about blood, silentlambs is all about child abuse. According to you, if the Society changed the rules on abuse you'd be happy and would close your site. Lee'd be happy if they accepted new rule son blood. Ain't gonna happen. Damn it all guys, the org. is corrupt and so let's go after that. Life does not work in the way that you seem to think it does. These guys do not give a fuck. It is a delusion to ask for change on a specific issue, you have to slam them wholesale.
You guys, however, have gone so far already....no complaints. It's just that if you really want change then the gloves have to be burned.
David
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Between The WTS And The Deep Blue Sea
by hillary_step inmany people leave the wts after a short period, often only measured in weeks, of theological discovery.
it is not an easy matter to recognize that the belief system upon which your whole emotional persona has been built has serious flaws, some sinister in nature, and often this leads to a rapid confrontation with the elders.
letters, most of them depressingly repetitive in content hit service desks in local branches worldwide, a few weeks later a sterile announcement is made in a congregation and the apostate conveyor belt shifts forward slightly, waiting for its next victim.. suddenly many find themselves outside in the cold, with little support, often without friends, sometimes with fatally wounded marriages and above all a crippling sense of confusion as to what one should now adhere to as a belief system.. my plea in this post if for all those caught in that no-mans-land, between the wts and the deep blue sea, not to play by the rules thrust upon you, but to plot your own passage over the seas of what is your life, and yours alone.
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Trilobite
H_S,
Agreed; but we are all at such cross purposes, posting random thoughts. I'm actually sick of it. We either need to organize to do something positive or quit. I'm close to quitting. I feel that posting here is talking into thin air. How many excellent posts have been lost in the mists of time?
If we each donated x-amount of $ or cents to some paypal account run by Bill, or Hawk, or someone we could trust, we could actually strike. $0 would be a legit amount too, but words only go so far; look at the history of the WTS itself, or Mao, etc etc etc. $s are needed now. With $ we can maim the WTS and force it to respond. Use their own style of weapon against them. No one seems interested and so I'm losing interest. What is it, we are all too poor, or too squeamish, or is it that we like wasting time posting here?
Without money we are DEAD. Look at history...
T.
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Email from UN DPINGO
by Trilobite ini emailed the un dpi with a request for clarification on the wts/un business.
this is what i received (below).
it will be familiar.
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Trilobite
Wanna,
Great! Good luck tomorrow, if you're still going.
The thing with dubs is that, they want it "in print." (copyright JT)
T.
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NEWS: I am publicly reproved over UN situation.
by badwillie inmy wife and i met with 3 elders for a "judicial hearing".. our crime: simply put, was talking.
i showed a friend the un website where the wts was listed as an ngo which then led to a 2 hour discussion of various doubts that we both have had.
my wife also showed a friend the un thing but also discussed with her a first hand account of a pedophile cover-up that we knew about in our former congregation.
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Trilobite
Dung - may I call you that? :-)
Make it so.
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E-Petitions etc
by Trilobite ini apologize for harping on the same theme; however, i feel that at this juncture we need to step up the heat.
merely talking amongst ourselves is not going to achieve too much.
the un/wts issue, together with silentlambs and ajwrb, presents, in my view, the greatest opportunity in a long time for getting results.
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Trilobite
I apologize for harping on the same theme; however, I feel that at this juncture we need to step up the heat. Merely talking amongst ourselves is not going to achieve too much. The UN/WTS issue, together with silentlambs and ajwrb, presents, in my view, the greatest opportunity in a long time for getting results.
There are several things which I believe we should do;
(i) Try to generate a war chest so that we can advertise. For example, little ads in major newspapers that said something like: "Email the UN at [email protected] to find out about the connection between Jehovah's Witnesses and the UN" might attract some attention. The responses from the UN certainly would. Other things might come to mind, but a war chest would be terrific were it available.
If 300 people donated $5.00, $10.00 or $20.00 per month it would soon become enough to run an ad. in the NYT. Paypal make sthat easy. We have to us ethe internet to full advantage. It's not just about information; it's about action. Apostate.com!
(ii) Provide financing for cases like Badwillie's, or exJWs in hardship who, perhaps, could be helped to write books that expose the WTS. There are individuals who have the same or similar kinds of inside knowledge as does Ray Franz but who are in dire financial straits.
(iii) How about generating an e-petition to send to the Supreme Court, or to other places, that criticizes the WTS on Human Rights: http://www.epetitions.com.au/
(iv) a web site on the UN and Human rights issues. www.jwbloodreview.org is a model.
These are just ideas; More would be welcome. I have no firm ideas how they would be implemented. Lots of practical questions need to be addressed. Still, I think that without some degree of organization and self-financing our effectiveness will be limited. There are a lot of us and so even small contributions would rapidly accumulate.
I certainly have no administerative abilities whatsoever; I would do all I could in other areas but I'm asking for others to consider trying to organize something.
Should we think seriously about this possibility? I believe that we should if we are serious about the WTS. I realize that we all hate organization, but sometimes, alas, it is necessary.
Coments, pro and con would be most welcome. My idea is not to take on the WTS head-on but to exploit its many vulnerabilities. Sometime I think that we still act as if the WTS is God's org. and, so, is indestructable. It isn't. Let's rent the curtain from bottom to top and expose the pathetic little creatures behind it.
Thanks,
Trilobite
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NEWS: I am publicly reproved over UN situation.
by badwillie inmy wife and i met with 3 elders for a "judicial hearing".. our crime: simply put, was talking.
i showed a friend the un website where the wts was listed as an ngo which then led to a 2 hour discussion of various doubts that we both have had.
my wife also showed a friend the un thing but also discussed with her a first hand account of a pedophile cover-up that we knew about in our former congregation.
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Trilobite
Pureheart,
Utter bullshit. The Elders will run a mile if they are threatened. And if BAdwillie decides to go for it you can bet that many here will contribute to the fund.
The edlers only have authority when it comes to the administering of clearly defined church law. Abbrogation of free speech is not part of their purview.
T.
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Badwillie's Situation - PISSED OFF
by Trilobite ini for one am throughly fed up and royally pissed off with the crap from this organization.. if badwillie will set up a paypal account i will send money to it.
any other takers?.
badwillie - if you agree to this, and there is sufficient support, then get yourself a high powered attorney and sue their asses off.. also: if you do agree, how about we let the guardian know what we are doing.. t.
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Trilobite
Amazing,
Good points. Anything that can be done to stop the elders taking official action, in any way, is a plus. The threat, if issued seriously, of legal action might head them off. Thoughts?
Given the WTS's case that's going to the Supreme Court on "Freedom of Speech" and its behavior with the UN, a case like this would at least attract attention I'd think. Further, I don't see how the WTS's basic de facto argument that "you must believe everything we tell you and you are not allowed to question it" can be considered a legitimate religious rule, as you also note. So I'd bet that if we got enough donated $ together the elders, and by extension the WTS, could be put into a very embarrassing situation. My guess is that the elders would just drop the whole thing.
I know of one case where an exMS left his wife and is openly living with another woman. The elders leave him alone because he threatened to sue them. This guy also physically abused his wife and still they backed off. They claim they can't DF him because they have "no proof."
T.