Posts by Jammer

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

You people are a bunch of fucking fools.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

Fisherman said,

Not spiritually. 70 marked the end of the Jewish era..... We know that 70 was a punishment upon the Jews but were the people of WW2 that you refer to “Jews” to God? So 70 was really the end.

The end of the Jewish era - if there is such a thing - didn't end with the kosmos.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world/kosmos to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I said earlier that there are three different words for world (and 'end') in Mathew 24 that need consideration. In verse 3,

"...and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

This word is 'aiōn and 'has an interesting meaning. In this context it is the time period between the first and second advent of Jesus Christ.

In verse 14 it's the word 'oikoumenē' you can hear it's pronounce here...

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3625/kjv/tr/0-1/

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

This word is similar to 'eretz in the OT. It often implies an inhabited area, a country, region, or the whole inhabited world. This is the word that would have to be used in verse 21 to even consider the possibility 'THE END' happens in AD70. AND - the fact that the gospel is still being preached debunks an AD 70 fulfilment!

In verse 21 its the word kosmos.

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world/kosmos to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Kosmos indicates that this 'tribulation' cis unprecedented and comes upon the entire planet.

This word implies the entire planet including the heavens. In my view, that word debunks the idea of some sort of 'spiritual tribulation' which isn't implied in the context whatsoever. Tribulation isn't spiritual in any way.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

See you later VH

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

2/3's of the disciple's question had to do with the END of the age which began at the crucifixion of Jesus. It did not end in AD70.

...and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The gospel is still being preached so the end did NOT come in AD70.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

The abomination has not yet been revealed.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, and

There were no celestial signs there was no gathering, so the Lord didn't return in AD70..

WW 2 was far worse than AD70 to the Jews.

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

There's no doubt in my mind that Jesus and the fig tree illustration refer to the time the disciples about - the end of the age!

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

In response to Disillusioned JW and a few other comments,

...some who are TV evangelist theologians, say that in our modern times the temple will be rebuilt and later be destroyed by the anti-Christ. They thus teach that conditions will exist for a second fulfillment in regards to the temple being destroyed. I've seen a number of movies (which I think are based upon books by Tim Francis LaHaye, who was a baptist evangelical Christian minister, but is now dead) which depict this idea.

Dispensationalism is the driving force behind most of evangelical Christianity. They say the Temple will be rebuilt is because the AC claims to be God "in the Temple of God".

They use 2 Thes. 2, Daniel 9:24-27, and Daniel 11 for support.

"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The dispensational scenario looks something like this.

There's a pre-trib rapture of the 'saints' where the holy spirit is removed from the earth followed by a 7 year tribulation. They call the final 3 1/2 years 'the Great Tribulation'.

The antichrist - a global dictator, then comes to power and unites the world. He makes a peace treaty with Israel and its neighbors - the first man to ever do it, allows them to build their temple and resume animal sacrifices, only to double-cross them have them cease in the Middle of the week/7 year tribulation....etc.

There's are and have been a host of powerhouse dispensationalist. Lahaye, Jenkins, Tom Ice, Jimmie Deyoung, John MacArthur, David Jeremiah, Jack Van Impe, Perry Stone, etc. The whole thing goes back to John Darby. It gained a lot of steam back in the 60's & 70's and has become the dominate mindset of most evangelical, Baptist, and Pentecostal people today.

Mathew 24 is Jesus's reply to Israel's plight during the final days of this 'age/world'.

There are several prophecies both in the Old and New Testament that have never passed in the 1st century and even up to today. Celestial events are mentioned to occur during this time period that never have. We live in a technocratic age of artificial intelligence, a coming digital society. The great reset is underway ushering in the globalist agenda of the New World order. Digital ID's and currency are around the corner. Not to mention we live in an age of nuclear weapons.

This is todays Joseph Mercola "Story at a glance"...

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

The Great Reset involves the demolition and radical overhaul of several interlocking pillars of civilization: technology, society, economy, environment and geopolitics. Food and health also fall within these categories
Through control of these core pillars, the World Economic Forum (WEF) and its globalist allies intend to seize control of all the nations of the world and centralize all power and wealth
The WEF is an organization that profits from famine and disease; it uses tragedies and fear to further its own agenda. It intends to dictate what you eat, what you own and what you think, under the guise of building a “sustainable future”
The WEF-led cabal believes in transhumanist and technocratic principles, and the technocratic system requires extensive surveillance and artificial intelligence-driven technologies to keep everyone in check
Technocrats actually believe they’re better, more evolved than the rest, and this superiority gives them the right to decide the fate of mankind. They also reject the notion of free will. Once you understand this basic mindset, it’s easier to understand why they think nothing of stripping you of your freedom and ability to make choices for yourself
__________________

I think this is prophesied in Daniel 7:7-8 which is NOT the antichrist...

"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

The 7 headed 10 horned beast of Revelation 13 and 17 are 'different' end-time beast.

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:21
1. Are you saying verse 21 applies to the 1914 generation exclusively?
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Mt 24:34

2. Are you saying verse 34 applies to the 1914 generation exclusively?

I am in a way but not totally. 1914 was around the time the New World Order began gaining steam. I understand a generation in this context the way Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament words explains...

The whole multitude of men living at the same time, Mat 24:34; Mar 13:30; Luk 1:48; 21:32; Phl 2:15, and especially of those of the Jewish race living at the same period, Mat 11:16, etc.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

So can you identify the generation you believe Jesus was referring in Matthew 24:34?

First FYI - Jesus said, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

In my research I found that on the Temple Mount there were stones 'one upon one another' for a few hundred years after AD70.

Look at things Jesus says in the chapter.

"Take heed that no man deceive you."

For THEN shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

"For THEN shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

This is probably the biggest sign...

WHEN ye therefore shall SEE the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

And this too...

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

The disciples asked what for signs preceding the parousia.

PAROUSIA - the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God.

Jesus went through the trouble to explain which generation. He said it's the generation that SEES/witnesses the passing of the events he mentions in the chapter, and compares that time period/generation to the budding of a fig tree. The leaves budding represent the things he mentions in the chapter that precede summer, and Summer represents Christ return/Parousia is near.

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, (In the same way) when ye shall SEE all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

There are three different words for END and three different words for world in Mathew 24.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

Vanderhoven7 said,

Hi Jammer,
Are you saying that the temple was not fully destroyed so that nothing in Matthew 24 applies to Christ's generation?
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
So what generation do you believe Jesus was referring in Matthew 24:34?
a. the 1914 generation exclusively?
b. the 21st century generation exclusively?
c. other?

The text is clear and so is the fig tree illustration. When a fig tree begins to bud - we know summer is near. The generation that sees all the events pass that Jesus mentions in Mathew 24 - that's the generation that will witness his return.

NO, I did NOT say the temple was NOT fully destroyed. Jesus was talking about the entire temple site which included many buildings. That's why he said, "See ye not ALL these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

Disillusioned JW said,

On page 13 of this topic thread I said the following as part of a reply to Jeffro. "I noticed that the tribulation mentioned in Matthew chapter 24 (which is described as happening in Judea) is very different from the tribulation of Revelation and of the bowl's of wrath mentioned in Revelation. It is very difficult to correlate Revelation with Matthew chapter 24."

The tribulation mentioned in Mathew 24 is the same as that mentioned in Revelation. It's just Mathew 24 focuses on Jerusalem because it is a 'burdensome stone' and Israel is the central focus of prophecy. And all but maybe one of the disciples were Jewish. The anti-Christ, AKA the 'abomination of desolation', authenticates himself on the Temple Mount.

The region of the Middle East is the main area of conflict and Judgment. That does not mean that the rest of the planet does not endure tribulation.

The problem with interpreters (esp. evangelicals) is they think the anti-Christ will be a global dictator who is represented in Daniel 7's fourth beast and represented by the Revelation 13 and 17 beast. I say they are all different end-time 'beast'.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

Vanderhoven7 said,

QUESTION: Was Matthew 24: 1 - 35 entirely fulfilled in the first century?
ANSWER: Absolutely!

My answer would be absolutely not. The entire chapter is Jesus' response to this 3-part question...

When shall these things be? What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Most of Jesus' response is about the parousia and the end of the age which comes about 2,000 years in the future from when these words were spoken.

The questions came from this quote from Jesus...

"And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Here's a problem. Jesus said, "See ye not all these things"

The Western wall is the only thing standing today that Jesus and his disciples saw themselves.

What generation was Jesus talking about?

The generation that SEES all the things pass that Jesus mentions between verses 3 and 31.Jesus uses a fig tree to illustrate...

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Many people associate the gathering/rapture with verses 40-41. They believe - where one is taken and one left - the two in the field and two women grinding, represents the same event as the gathering Jesus mentions in verses 29-31.

Verses 40-41 represent the judgment of nations, AKA the separation of the sheep and goats. That judgment determines WHO enters the 1,000 years. One enters and the other is destroyed.

That's the way I see it anyway.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Jammer

Vanderhoven7 said,

Note that Jesus ' Parousia would take place in normal times, while unsuspecting people were having fun, not during a world War.

Then you quoted Mathew 24:36-24. You bolded verses 36, 39,42, and 44. I'm wondering what part of MT. 24 leads you to believe that the parousia occurs during 'normal times' - while people are having fun?