Holy Cow, Amazing. Now whadja go and do a thing like that for? Was wondering where you were with all the hoopla going on.
Miss you. AND GET WELL.
Trot {{{hugs}}}
Trotafox
JoinedPosts by Trotafox
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Amazing Survived Major Heart Attack
by AlanF ini just spoke on the phone to amazing (jim whitney) who is in intensive care in a chicago hospital.
on monday he had a major heart attack, had a stint put in an artery to unblock things and may have bypass surgery.
he's comfortable enough right now, but of course will have to make some big lifestyle changes.
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YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
by COMF insock it to 'em, bill!
praise the lord, the truth's coming out!
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Trotafox
Praise God. What a show. I was clapping all over the place. Bill and Barbara killed them. I'm loving that phone call!
Great jobs. Well done.
thank u, thank u, thank u DATELINE...............
Think they'll follow up with a program on cults????? Whop-p-pee.
Trot (((())))
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YOU'RE GONNA LOVE THIS...Gr-r-r
by Trotafox inas i said in an earlier post, i am posting about dateline on another christian board which is quite obscure.
i am battling with a dude (more than likely) named "french knight".
sounds like a "hiding out" jw elder.
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Trotafox
If Frenchy is lurking, please answer. My problem is that Frenchy is listing WT rules (which I mentioned to you above) on the other site and saying he doesn't want anyone (me) to give the impression the WT is full of pedophiles and to ask him if anyone has any questions.
http://www.leftbehind.com/community/talk/messageboards/default.asp?dact=read&post_id=161421&explist=,&room_id=97
Simon: I apologize for posting material from another site. I was not aware that it was not permitted. Is it okay to post this thread address? Pls let me know.
Trot
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YOU'RE GONNA LOVE THIS...Gr-r-r
by Trotafox inas i said in an earlier post, i am posting about dateline on another christian board which is quite obscure.
i am battling with a dude (more than likely) named "french knight".
sounds like a "hiding out" jw elder.
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Trotafox
As I said in an earlier post, I am posting about DATELINE on another Christian board which is quite obscure. I am battling with a dude (more than likely) named "French Knight". Sounds like a "hiding out" JW elder. If you're lurking on this board French Knight, I'll let these guys have a go at you. My answer is ready. I just want to see what ya'll think. (I can't wait to here this) The issue is, of course, DATELINE and JW's pedophile policies. Here's his comments:
__________________FROM TROTAFOX TO French Knight:
Just exactly what has been posted that is not true?
Your (TROTAFOX'S) post:WT policy is that an abused victim cannot go to authorities but rather they must report the incident to an elder.
It is very difficult (impossible in most cases) for someone who has never been a witness to understand how it really is. The whole process is very complicated and most witnesses themselves (elders included) are not completely aware of everything that goes on. There are rules and then there are perceptions of rules based on the conditioning that is continually occurring. No one INSIDE the congregation really understands this either. It takes someone that was once inside and is not standing on the outside to fathom what is really happening.I think your heart is in the right place. (smile) But the fact of the matter is that an abuse victim most certainly can go to the police according to the rules. However, so strong is the indoctrination that this is God’s organization and that the elders are appointed by holy spirit and are qualified to handle all matters, coupled with the instinctive reaction of virtually all witnesses to avoid bringing reproach on the congregation, in most cases where there is an alleged case of abuse, the victim or parents of the victim go straight to the elders with the matter. It’s important to note that no congregational action would be taken against them for going to the police.
When an allegation of child abuse occurs in a congregation the elders are instructed via letters from the Society which are kept on file to call the Society’s legal department. If they live in a state where it is required by law for them to report the allegation then they will be instructed to do so. If their particular state does not require it, they will be told, in essence, to keep their mouths shut and handle it like any other judicial matter in which cases two witnesses or a confession are required to take action.
Now let’s say that word gets around that this ‘brother’ is being accused of child molestation. Perhaps another this has happened to another child in the congregation and then that child steps forward and tells mom and dad. The rules state that if a second party comes up with the same type of offense to another incident then this is acceptable as being the second witness to the matter. Then there is a judicial meeting and the accused is given a chance to defend himself although there is a poor chance of his establishing his innocence with two people accusing him. BUT…if he has credible alibi’s he may beat the wrap here as he would in a regular court. He could be disfellowshipped right then and there and there would be no objection to the parents going to the authorities then. (He would no longer be a member of the congregation) Even if he is not df’d the parents could still go to the authorities with it but this would be frowned on by the congregation.
The foregoing is a very abbreviated version of what happens and it can and usually does get far more complicated than that before it’s over. The point is that there are a lot of factors involved here and a lot of things going on. I would not like for people here to get the impression that this is widespread (it’s not) and what you have is an organization full of pedophiles doing their dirty deeds and everyone just looking the other way while their children are being victimized.
If someone has a specific question as to the procedures and such I would be happy to provide any answer that I can.
To defend them is heinous!
I sincerely hope that you understand the difference between defending ‘them’ and explaining what actually happens. I am not defending the policy, to the contrary, I disagree heartily with that policy. They are masters at bending the truth and misrepresenting facts. I just want to make sure that I do not become (again) what it is that I have grown to detest so much.FRENCH KNIGHT.
Opinion's anyone...Trotafox
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bad news.... :*(
by XLovesMeNotX inafter two years out, and that after 25 years in...my mother in law announced out of the blue that she is making an effort to rejoin the jws.
im sure the only reason she is joining them is to get her estranged jw elder husband back, and her two jw kids and grandkids.
i cant believe that a "christian" religion would force its members to prostitute themselves this way just to have their family.. they suck!!
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Trotafox
So now you're out and they're in? Talk about having to be the sacrifical lamb!
Sorry to hear this Loves Me. Let's hope she'll keep the lines of communication open with you. Just be there for her.
Trot
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X-JWs Who are now bible Christians
by clash_city_rockers inhi folks,.
i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.
i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.
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Trotafox
Gumby:
.....man does not lead another to christ...man may be a vessel God uses to bring ones to him.
...If God already knows all who are his.....whats the point in trying to evangelize?...God already knows who are his? Do we have any bearing on mans salvation if this is the case?
God uses Man to bring the evangelizing message to Man! (this is the commandment of making disciples).Do we Christians have a bearing? You bet! A baptized Christian knows the evangelizing message that they are to pass on. If God chooses to use you, you have the option to refuse. That is your free will. God will see to it that person has every opportunity to come to Christ. The one who refuses to be of assistance when called upon, however, has more to worry about this the one Christ is calling. So I'd say Man has a big bearing on it....as it regards our own personal relationship with God. Will he forgive us. Of course, if we ask him to and pray for more courage. It boils down to Christian responsibility.
Does this make sense?
Trot
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well I am off to do some witnessing
by Lady Lee ingot my bag yup.
got my bible - nope.
got my wt and awake!s nope.
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Trotafox
I've been posting the info on another "obscure" Christian board. Don't want to give out the site address since I know WT "legal beagles" are probably monitoring this Board heavily right now.
I just ran several searches and not one picked up the site so
eat your heart out Watchtower!By the way, my search brought up 80 Christian Chat Rooms. I just may (or maybe not) sign on to all of them and pass the DATELINE message along. So Watchtower...get your Nikes on! You're gonna be busy.
ADVERTISE...ADVERTISE...ADVERTISE. Public pressure may cause the authorities to get involved and bring about a change for the silentlambs. This high control (Pharisaic) group needs exposed for what they really are. We may not get those that are in the WT, but we sure can see to it that people from the outside think twice before answering the door!
God's organization my foot! God is not with that organization. You're working for a stupid PUBLISHING COMPANY. Turn off the hypnotic tape recorder and shake the sawdust from your heads for Pete's sake.
Trot....who's looking forward to DATELINE.You can love and obey Christ without intervention from an organization.
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X-JWs Who are now bible Christians
by clash_city_rockers inhi folks,.
i'm just sort of taking role call to all those x-dubs who are now brothers and sisters in christ.
i think it is wise for us to rise up and be counted so that we know who each other are.
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Trotafox
Been a baptized Christian since 12 years old.
Baptized in Presbyterian church at 12.
Baptized in Church of Christ young adult.
Bapitzed JW (ugh!) at age 45.
Disassociated last June.Cuurently attending Presbyterian church and was able to take communion for the first time in 11 years.
I was at an advantage having already been familiar with mainstream Christian doctrine prior to becoming a JW. Perhaps that's why I was always questioning their ridiculous teachings. They never did completely "feel" right. Currently trying to untwist JW doctrine. I just started over in studying where I left off. I consider my JW period an unpleasant and dangerous "side tracking". Praise God for leading me out. I've been reading a lot of DR. CHARLES STANLEY. His teachings are bible-based and he explains the scriptures very well.
You could argue over Christian doctrine/religion forever if you wanted to. Organized religion is not perfect and neither is making up one's own personal belief system. There is a happy medium. Ex-JW's now know better than to allow a church to dictate to them. We all have a personal accountability before God and no institution should enforce rules over us like a dictatorship. Although church attendance is not necessarily needed to "study" God's word, Christian association is necessary to stay strong in the faith...to keep from backsliding into our old non-Christian ways and beliefs. However, we don't need a church to beat us up for it. If they do, it's time to find another church!
Live your life like Jesus lived his. Make your decisions based on God's word. Don't keep looking for ways to justify doing something that you suspect may not be in line with God's word just because you want to satisfy your conscience. If it feels wrong...it is wrong. Keep your nose in God's word. It's amazing how clear his voice will be if you let it!
Trot
You can love and obey Christ without intervention from an organization.
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Benton Kentucky Press Conference
by silentlambs in31 silentlambs were present for the press conference on the courthouse steps in benton, ky. reporters from five news media recorded information for various news sources.
the weekend newspapers should be interesting to read.. silentlambs .
press conference opening statement:.
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Trotafox
Glad to oblige. Here is a lower case version. Little easier to read.
Evansville TV News,
. http://www.14wfie.com You can watch it here.
No word on how seriously. Now a story about a woman who lost a husband, her religion, and almost lost her daughter. The other players are two elders in the Jehovah’s Witnesses church....one who led a secret life that led to the breakup of the marriage....and another who turned whistleblower...only to find himself an outcast in his own church. Tonight...Stefanie Silvey investigates. (Bill Bowen: "I gave every fiber of my being to the church." It takes five to ten years to become an elder, but Bill Bowen did it. He was viewed by his congregation in Benton county, Kentucky...as a man of God...but now he faces being disfellowshipped, removed from his religion. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses theology. To be disfellowshipped means your soul is doomed to die Armageddon, the battle between good and evil at the end of time ...and anyone associated with you will die too. Once disfellowshipped, family and friends view you as being dead before god. If a Jehovah’s Witness listens to someone disfellowshipped.. Bill Bowen:"you are defying the church." so how did it all happen? Last fall. Bill Bowen was asked by church elders to sort through old church files and throw away any useless or dated papers when he came across a sealed envelope. Lexxus Lashley:"I didn't know him at all, to me it's a miracle, how my folder got into his hands and it was sealed up, but there was just something about it that made him open it..and when he opened it, it was like Pandora's box for him. His whole life has been changed." Lexxus Lashley's life as a Jehovah’s Witness was in that envelope. Lexxus is a new name and she lives a new life in Evansville after being disfellowshipped in the 80's. Lexxus Lashley: "Sometimes religion is to the soul what cement shoes are to the body. It will just drag you down." Lexxus married when she was just 17. Her marriage was difficult from the beginning. Lexxus Lashley: "I was always told, be a better wife and help him along.." but Lexxus soon learned she was in over her head. She says her husband was leading a double life. In front of the congregation, he shined but at home he was mentally and sexually abusive... Addicted to pornography and that wasn't all. She discovered other problems while cleaning her bathroom mirror one day. "I see this hole and so I go around to the other side of the room which was my daughter's room and there was a picture off the wall and there was a peep hole made ." Lexxus went to the elders. "They just wanted me to put the picture back on the wall and tell him to puddy it back up and stop doing that...and that's how they dealt with him...'don't do that.'" Lexxus says his problems were much more severe, and when she couldn't get help from the elders, she filed for divorce and was kicked out of the church for intentionally smoking. It meant losing her daughter. Lexxus Lashley: "People don't understand, i was willing to die, but I'm not going to take her life." Bill Bowen: "She subscribed to the theology of the church and she thought she was saving her daughter's life, so it was a measure of love on her part, in a twisted sort of way. "Twisted because what Lexxus didn't know was she was leaving her young daughter with an accused and later confessed child molester. A victim had come forward and accused Lexxus's husband of molesting her when she was just nine years old...but according to Jehovah’s Witness policy....if the molester denies the accusations...the child's family must produce a second eyewitness to the incident before anything can be done. Bill Bowen: "Child molesters don't molest children in front of people, so when the child can't produce an eye witness, the elder body than meets with the family and says look, you don't have two witnesses, the man denies the charge...he remains an innocent man in the congregation." and what Lexxus also didn't know was her husband's victim was her nine year old sister. Lexxus Lashley: "the things that i hear that went on after i went on and went to sleep , make me sick...makes me sick that she couldn't tell me." that little secret and others like the two way mirror, were tucked away in the file Bill Bowen found years later. By this time...the child molester was also an elder...a glorious one. When confronted by Bowen...the elder finally confessed. "They called for strict confidentiality, though the man had confessed. They told me that I couldn't even tell his own wife that he was a child molester. I call that hiding child molesters." the elder had remarried and had another daughter...a granddaughter..and custody of his daughter with Lexxus. Lexxus didn't know about the molestation of her sister because rather than having the molester disfellowshipped...the elders disfellowshipped lexxus's sister for alleged promiscious behavior years later. Bowen says that's common among victims. Bill Bowen:" well Jehovah’s Witnesses have a solution to that...they disfellowship them and that way they don't have to deal with the problem..and the victim is thus revictimized again. They are alienated from their family...their own parents will not help or assist them unless they are absolutely destitute and any other friend or family they have known outside their immediate family views them as dead." Bill Bowen went against orders of the church and went public with what he knew. He resigned as elder, and created a website called "silent lambs" where Jehovah’s Witnesses could speak out about being victimized. Thousands across the country di Bill Bowen:"who would have thought Kentucky would have been the start of an organization for child molestation." But his church wasn't so supportive. "I was demonized in our church..members were afraid to speak to me, because they considered me to be a man against god." while Bowen was shunned...the confessed child molester was embraced by the church and asked to give lectures and readings. "I confronted the elders about that. I said...it's offensive to the victim, as well as offensive to me that you would use a child molester as an example within the church...and I'll never forget one of the elders standing there said 'the most offensive people, take offense.' so I just sat there and thought to myself...me as a person that turned in a child molester and the victim, are more offensive to you than a child molester...well, in my opinion that supports pedophiles...and his comment...that was it for me." by the time Lexxus learned of her sister's abuse it was too late. Her sister is no longer disfellowshipped, and is back in good standing. She lives with her parents in Henderson. Lexxus remains disfellowshipped... So the two still can't communicate. Her daughter was a different story. Lexxus called her ex- husband and said their daughter wouldn't be returning home after a weekend visit. He threatened to take her to court. Lexxus Lashley:"so i said, let's go, i would love to stand in front of a judge with you and tell him, you are a pedophile...and it was just silence...and I haven't been bothered by these people anymore." Lexxus's daughter says at first she was angry with Bill Bowen. She felt he'd ruined her life..but that has changed. "I just think what he is doing is for the better, even though it affects my family. I really appreciate it, but it's kind of hard to say that when it's right against your father." he daughter says she can't remember if she was ever molested by her father and still loves him..but says people have a right to know. "I don't think it's right at all to keep it a secret." Bill Bowen: "Me, I will always be Satan. I don't ever think they will thank me for it, I don't need the religion to thank me, I know what I'm doing is right." Lexxus Lashley: "I think he saved my life.--long pause and crying-- he saved my life and he gave me the courage to get my child back..") Stefanie, what's going to happen to elder Bowen, the whistleblower in this case? Bill Bowen has a hearing tomorrow in Benton county before the elders to decide if he will be disfellowshipped for causing divisions within his church. He is fighting to remain in good standing because if he's disfellowshipped, victims of abuse can't come to him, or they too will face being disfellowshipped. Nbc dateline is doing an hour long story on this case and others in the Jehovah’s Witness church next week. What's the church say to charges of having a child molester as an elder? I talked to the head of a committee overseeing Bowen's hearing. He said he couldn't say anything specific about this case but he says Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child molestation and provide videos and other helpful tools to parents to educate their children on the subject. Anyone interested in seeing more about the Jehovah’s Witnesses policies or Bill Bowen's silent lambs website can log onto our website at 14wfie.com and click on Stefanie Silvey investigates.. What's the status of the confessed child molester in the church? Lexxus's ex-husband was later removed as an elder in the church but he remains in good standing. The congregation however, didn't know he was removed because it was announced in church he was stepping down after a job well done. He was praised within the church.Trot
You can love and obey Christ without intervention from an organization.
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hey! tried searching for yourself on the net?
by ballistic intype in your name (or username) and jehovah into any internet browser or search engine.. typing in jehovah ballistic finds me on this page: .
http://members.boardhost.com/eden-2-outpost/.
and i only made 1 post there and havent been on the net that long.. the only other person i tried it for was fred hall jehovah and that also worked in ie.. a friend of mine specialises in getting people listed on the net, but i'm not too sure how individual pages are picked up from message boards like this.
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