Posts by truman

This is a subject that really hits close to home for me. Despite some occasional evidence otherwise, I do like to consider myself a reasonably intelligent and aware person, even as a JW for the bulk of my adult life. I am well familiar with several of the tricks of mental gymnastics that you outlined from the thinking people with whom you have contact. It is a sad state of mind to be required to maintain in order to feel like you are 'with the program', a faithful sister/brother.

One of the most powerful mental pushes anyone gave me in the months before I finally woke up from the dream (or was it a nightmare) and left the Witnesses, was an off hand remark a sister made to me. I had been talking to her about my son's increasing distance from the JW mindset, and how he had several issues he had been thinking deeply about.

She said, "he's such a smart kid", and then told me that she had heard it said that it is difficult for really intelligent people to stay in the 'truth'. Now she herself, is not an especially deep thinker, but that casual comment went to my core. Why on earth would the god of everything, the ultimate intelligence in the universe, make stupidity, credulity, and gullibility not only a saturating feature of his one true avenue of approach, but almost a requirement to remain in its confines?

That just made no sense to me at all, and it rattled around in my brain for several months, till I finally found freeminds.org one day, and I understood at last the answer to my question. Wouldn't "God" want his human creations to use every ounce of their birthright of intelligence to understand Him, the universe, the world around them, the things they believe, rather than deny the obvious results of that thinking ability.......Yes, I decided. I could, I did, I left.

104

Whom Have You Seen In Concert....

by berylblue in

jw
friends

...and what was your first concert ever?

truman

My first concert ever was Glen Campbell...that was around 1980.

Then 3 years ago, I saw "Weird" Al Yankovic.

Last year I saw TOOL!

Last winter I saw Tori Amos

Last month I saw the Moody Blues.

Last night I saw Fleetwood Mac.

On Saturday, I am going to see Santana.

Am I making progress? My favorite has been TOOL....they were completely incredible and awesome.

31

Home Schooling

by yxl1 in

jw
friends

my sister-in-law's husband was raised as a jehovahs witness in north yorkshire and was educated at home by his mother along with his 5 brothers and sisters.

i remember many years ago when it first became common knowledge, many brothers and sisters thought that this method of education was ideal for witnesses who wanted to remain separate from the world, but all the kids from our congregatation had a state education.

i guess my question is, was home education only limited to my in-laws husbands family, or were any of you educated at home?

truman

I do apologize for the giant block of text in my post above. It was in paragraphs when I pushed the 'submit' button, but showed up as you see. I can't seem to figure out how to edit that. Sorry, for the hard to read format.

31

Home Schooling

by yxl1 in

jw
friends

my sister-in-law's husband was raised as a jehovahs witness in north yorkshire and was educated at home by his mother along with his 5 brothers and sisters.

i remember many years ago when it first became common knowledge, many brothers and sisters thought that this method of education was ideal for witnesses who wanted to remain separate from the world, but all the kids from our congregatation had a state education.

i guess my question is, was home education only limited to my in-laws husbands family, or were any of you educated at home?

truman

My children were almost entirely homeschooled, are now in their mid 20's. Both have told me that they are glad that we did things that way, and did not feel deprived of any opportunities for socializing. They are well-adjusted, intelligent, literate, and high functioning adults, though in line with what was the expectation from the WTS during my childrearing years, neither has a college education. My younger one, 24, did recently take a class in "American Constitution" at the local junior college, and he did quite well in it, especially excelling in the assignments which required speaking in front of the class...one of the few positive side effects from a life spent as a JW. (this son is now out, like me) I began doing homeschooling when my kids reached school age, even before, but of course, I didn't need to label it as something to explain why they weren't in public school. This was in the early 80's when not many people were doing it. My motive was not particularly JW related, and in fact, at that time, I think many Witnesses looked askance at this choice. They thought kids should be in school, so they could preach to their classmates. My reason for homeschooling was, that I gave birth to these kids, and I wanted to be involved integraly in their lives and education, not turn the responsibility for this huge influence over to the state. Public education as we see it today, is a relatively new phenomenon, and largely a method of preparing children for taking their place in the industrialized marketplace, which requires adherence to time schedules, rules, and regimentation. So much time is wasted in schools caring for the logistics of handling large groups of children, that the actual time spent learning is not all that much. You can accomplish the same thing at home in a fraction of the day, leaving much more opportunity for freely chosen activities, play, socializing, family bonding, and more. My children spent lots of hours just outside exploring, collecting bugs, in physical activities...just being kids, but they were never socially disadvantaged. We did a lot of travel when they were younger, and they met people. I made plans to go to museums, parks, etc., at times during our routines. They also learned to be comfortable among people of all ages, not just their immediate peers, which kids are artificially isolated within at school, and therefore often feel most at ease with. My sons did attend public school for a couple of years in the junior high years, and they were easily able to integrate themselves into that environment, both socially and academically, being "A" students. They wanted to have the experience of 'regular' school, and so they had it, and then we went back to home school. During high school, we participated in a local 'independent study' program, which consisted of a once a week meeting with a teacher and then working on your own. Each of them also took an additional higher math class at the high school, going over for that one class during the day and then returning home. They got to know the kids at school, and still had the benefits of their greater freedom from the tightly scheduled days of most kids. I would never advocate homeschooling for everyone. It is a considerable undertaking, and I am quite aware that there are some who end up slighting their children's education by trying to homeschool, and not really being suitably devoted to doing a good job of it. It is not a cure for the social or societal ills one has to contend with in the public schools, though it can give kids the opportunity to blossom without having to struggle under those burdens. For our family, it was a good choice, and we all came out of it happy.

35

The PO and CO visit me....new light!!??

by truman in

jw
friends

i am just going to have to start keeping my front door closed.

today, i had it open, and there was no way to pretend i wasn't home when the two 'brothers' rang my door bell.

actually, they had been by last saturday, too, but the door was closed that day, and i didn't answer it.

truman

Thanks everybody for your comments. Some have pointed out that there is basically nothing new in the statements about not everyone getting a personal witness and so forth. That is probably true, looking at Blondie's posted wt references. It doesn't and wouldn't surprise me at all for there to be a postion in print which allows the WTS to wiggle out of commitment to 'witness' to everyone personally, and also simultaneously co-existing, a belief among the r-and-f JWs that everyone will indeed get a personal chance to hear the 'word'. I know when I became a JW, concern about each person on earth getting a proper chance was very important to me, and it is easy enough to imagine how unfair it would seem personally, if oneself were a member of some far flung or foreign cluture who gets the nebulous, blanket, generic 'witness' instead of a personal chance. I wanted to believe that all would get a sufficient opportunity, and to abandon that, would have been new to me as a JW, regardless of whatever weasel phrases were in the published literature. When the PO made those statements to me, he did so with the attitude that it was a position of 'increased understanding', though I have no specific places to point to you, Dedalus, for something in print to back it up. I was just reporting what he told me. The magazines he brought me were the first I have seen in months, since they stopped the magazine subs, and I haven't wanted to go to the KH just to get them. I rely on this board and the people who are still inside and posting what they hear on the board for my updates on things. This 'brother', the PO, likes to fancy himself a real thinker and up on all the latest, so maybe he was just spinning things in an effort to pique my interest. I think that what was said to me, and in light of the comments here, really bring home to me what great masters of "spin" the Witnesses are. No matter what happens, they can weave it into their scenario and make it look like evidence for their interpretation of prophecy. The most disturbing moments of the whole episode were inside me. There was a brief instant, when that "Oh my God, what if they are right?" thought swept through my mind. It did not linger long though, because so much has happened to me since I left, that I have no doubt that I did the right thing, and that such an induced thought was merely the lingering echoes of mind control triggers firing in my psyche.

35

The PO and CO visit me....new light!!??

by truman in

jw
friends

i am just going to have to start keeping my front door closed.

today, i had it open, and there was no way to pretend i wasn't home when the two 'brothers' rang my door bell.

actually, they had been by last saturday, too, but the door was closed that day, and i didn't answer it.

truman

Thanks Pat. It was in paragraphs when I pushed the 'submit' button, but didn't show up that way, and I couldn't find how to edit. Sorry...I know solid blocks of text are hard to read.

repost: PO &CO visit me....new light!!??

by truman in

jw
friends

i already tried to post this, but i can't find it on the board, and don't know what went wrong, so i am trying again.

if this becomes a duplicate, please excuse my ineptitude.

i am just going to have to start keeping my front door closed.

truman

I already tried to post this, but I can't find it on the board, and don't know what went wrong, so I am trying again. If this becomes a duplicate, please excuse my ineptitude. I am just going to have to start keeping my front door closed. Today, I had it open, and there was no way to pretend I wasn't home when the two 'brothers' rang my door bell. Actually, they had been by last Saturday, too, but the door was closed that day, and I didn't answer it. But they are persistant. I was a regular and well known member of the local congregation for many years, but never a local 'star', and I have not been to a meeting for over a year. Today the local PO and the visiting CO paid a 'shepherding call' on me. I suppose you could term it. I felt a moment of panic when I answered the door and saw them standing there, but all they seemed to want was to leave me the latest magazines, invite me to the CO's talk on Sunday, and inform me that the District Convention was next week. They did say some interesting things though during the course of their visit. The PO said that although the WT used to proclaim 'Christendom' as the major part of Babylon the Great, that has changed, and now it is Islam, since they now outnumber Christendom worldwide. He stressed the terrorist angle as being the impetus for the political powers to turn on religion, and said that most people would not protest, since few consider attendance to church vital and they will sacrifice liberties like this for personal security if necessary. He also stated that the current understanding is that it is not to be expected that the witnessing work by JWs will penetrate into all corners of the earth, or that each individual will personally get a 'witness', just that the message will be proclaimed worldwide. He said that it was reasonable to expect little penetration into areas such as China and the Moslem countries, because these cultures had never even been receptive to the growth of 'false' Christianity, how then would it be reasonably expected that they could likely grow 'true' Christianity. I said that this was an awfully huge portion of the earth's population to discount. His reply consisted of a couple of anecdotes about individuals from one of these places, who came to the US or Europe through immigration, and then became JWs. Jehovah knows where honest hearted people are and can get them out when he wants to. I guess that must be fairly easy, since there are only a handful of them, apparently. Too bad that the rest, more than a billion, of those people had the misfortune to be born into such stubborn cultures, or somehow lack whatever vital JW gene would have saved their lives at armageddon. The PO also gave some quotes from a Sunday talk he has about armageddon, in which he related a story supposedly channeled through some Bethelite high ups about an inquiry made to persons who participated in the dismantling of the Berlin Wall. When asked why they did it, they said that they just woke up that morning with the thought in their heads, implying that it was planted there by divine suggestion, I suppose. Then he gave an account of some of the (unnamed) European leaders, who upon consulting their spiritualistic, divining mediums with the question, "Why didn't you tell us that this wall was coming down?", received the answer, "Because we didn't know." He smiled and nodded with a confident knowing look, explaining that Jehovah doesn't let those guys in on his plans for this stuff. It's tough to be out of the information loop. While all that was interesting, he had some more personal items to regale me with. I heard about, at length, all the cruises and European travel that the various 'brothers' were privileged to enjoy. This brother and wife were granted the status of International Convention delegates at one country on the continent, and another brother was going to another. The CO who was with him, was to attend a third in another city. A JW mother and daughter were doing yet another. I guess it helps break up the mind numbing drivel of daily JW life , to get these officially sanctioned trips from time to time....if you can afford them. Most of them have a substantial 'vacation' attached to them after the JW event is over (thank God that is over, and we can have some fun now), and are assigned and booked through connections with the WTS. It seems to be becoming quite the status symbol among the 'friends' to have attended one or more of these foreign conventions as a 'delegate'. Bummer if you are one of those minimum wage earners in the congregation, who can't afford these 'privileges'. Well, it was all very interesting, but I don't think I will make any plans to attend the District Convention as a delegate next week, even though it would mean a trip of 100 miles for me, and could therefore be a feather in my cap, as 'theocratic travel'.

35

The PO and CO visit me....new light!!??

by truman in

jw
friends

i am just going to have to start keeping my front door closed.

today, i had it open, and there was no way to pretend i wasn't home when the two 'brothers' rang my door bell.

actually, they had been by last saturday, too, but the door was closed that day, and i didn't answer it.

truman

I am just going to have to start keeping my front door closed. Today, I had it open, and there was no way to pretend I wasn't home when the two 'brothers' rang my door bell. Actually, they had been by last Saturday, too, but the door was closed that day, and I didn't answer it. But they are persistant. I was a regular and well known member of the local congregation for many years, but never a local 'star', and I have not been to a meeting for over a year. Today the local PO and the visiting CO paid a 'shepherding call' on me. I suppose you could term it. I felt a moment of panic when I answered the door and saw them standing there, but all they seemed to want was to leave me the latest magazines, invite me to the CO's talk on Sunday, and inform me that the District Convention was next week. They did say some interesting things though during the course of their visit. The PO said that although the WT used to proclaim 'Christendom' as the major part of Babylon the Great, that has changed, and now it is Islam, since they now outnumber Christendom worldwide. He stressed the terrorist angle as being the impetus for the political powers to turn on religion, and said that most people would not protest, since few consider attendance to church vital and they will sacrifice liberties like this for personal security if necessary. He also stated that the new current understanding is that it is not to be expected that the witnessing work by JWs will penetrate into all corners of the earth, or that each individual will personally get a 'witness', just that the message will be proclaimed worldwide. He said that it was reasonable to expect little penetration into areas such as China and the Moslem countries, because these cultures had never even been receptive to the growth of 'false' Christianity, how then would it be reasonably expected that they could likely grow 'true' Christianity. I said that this was an awfully huge portion of the earth's population to discount. His reply consisted of a couple of anecdotes about individuals from one of these places, who came to the US or Europe through immigration, and then became JWs. Jehovah knows where honest hearted people are and can get them out when he wants to. I guess that must be fairly easy, since there are only a handful of them, apparently. Too bad that the rest, more than a billion, of those people had the misfortune to be born into such stubborn cultures, or somehow lack whatever vital JW gene would have saved their lives at armageddon. The PO also gave some quotes from a Sunday talk he has about armageddon, in which he related a story supposedly channeled through some Bethelite high ups about an inquiry made to persons who participated in the dismantling of the Berlin Wall. When asked why they did it, they said that they just woke up that morning with the thought in their heads, implying that it was planted there by divine suggestion, I suppose. Then he gave an account of some of the (unnamed) European leaders, who upon consulting their spiritualistic, divining mediums with the question, "Why didn't you tell us that this wall was coming down?", received the answer, "Because we didn't know." He smiled and nodded with a confident knowing look, explaining that Jehovah doesn't let those guys in on his plans for this stuff. It's tough to be out of the information loop. While all that was interesting, he had some more personal items to regale me with. I heard about, at length, all the cruises and European travel that the various 'brothers' were privileged to enjoy. This brother and wife were granted the status of International Convention delegates at one country on the continent, and another brother was going to another. The CO who was with him, was to attend a third in another city. A JW mother and daughter were doing yet another. I guess it helps break up the mind numbing drivel of daily JW life , to get these officially sanctioned trips from time to time....if you can afford them. Most of them have a substantial 'vacation' attached to them after the JW event is over (thank God that is over, and we can have some fun now), and are assigned and booked through connections with the WTS. It seems to be becoming quite the status symbol among the 'friends' to have attended one or more of these foreign conventions as a 'delegate'. Bummer if you are one of those minimum wage earners in the congregation, who can't afford these 'privileges'. Well, it was all very interesting, but I don't think I will make any plans to attend the District Convention as a delegate next week, even though it would mean a trip of 100 miles for me, and could therefore be a feather in my cap, as 'theocratic travel'.