Thanks to everyone for the (positive) responses.
FaceTheFacts
JoinedPosts by FaceTheFacts
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40
Does it get boring....
by FaceTheFacts indoes it become boring/monotonous reading thread after thread about how terrible the gb is and how much of a cult jws are...etc.
etc.?.
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46
JUST finished The Gentile Times Reconsidered!
by FaceTheFacts inhaving just finished reading the gtr (4th edition), i've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections.
so my question: would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of jonnson's viewpoint?
be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a jw.. .
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FaceTheFacts
Excuse me for defending myself....and explaining why I enjoy historical literature reflective of turbulent political climate.
Excuse me for pointing out obvious biased assumptions about the nature of my character and my lack of historical information about Rutherford.
Recovery/Ethos/whoever's modus operandi must be quite "normal"...as I don't see anything particularly "revealing" about defending one's self.
Seriously....the obsession with terming anyone who signs up here who is not flagrantly opposed to JW's a previous poster, is quite unfair and ridiculous to say the least.
ScenicViewer....see post 24, at the very top of this page where I explained in detail my reasons.
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46
JUST finished The Gentile Times Reconsidered!
by FaceTheFacts inhaving just finished reading the gtr (4th edition), i've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections.
so my question: would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of jonnson's viewpoint?
be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a jw.. .
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FaceTheFacts
I'm curious as to what it was about this publication that makes it one of your favourites from that era? I've not read the book, but I've listened to a recording of Rutherford's "Face The Facts" talk at the Royal Albert Hall. In it he sounds pompous and arrogant, and his talk is strewn with political opinion. I find it difficult to imagine anyone being a fan of Rutherford or his writings in the modern age unless they are completely oblivious to any objective historical information about his character.
Cedars....that's an unfair assumption. It is one of my favorite "Rutherfordian" publications because it presents an interesting and dramatic demonstrance of how many people (namely, the Bible Students) reacted to the turbulent political climate of the time and it is also set just a few years after the Great Depression. You don't necessarily have to agree with someone's viewpoint or opine positively about their character...to enjoy and learn from their writings. Many people also enjoy reading about/listening to Hitler's "pompous" and "arrogant" "political opinion" though they are not "completely oblivious to any objective historical information about his character." Why? Because it's interesting to see such a charismatic and manipulative speaker in action and to see direct evidenceof the manipulative methodology employed during these time periods.
Here are some statements that I (personally) love from the "Face the Facts" brochure:
"Facts fully stated are never open to successful contradiction, and therefore they stand admitted."
"Because the full statement of the facts tends to shock the susceptibilities of some persons furnishes no excuse or justification to withhold from the public any part thereof.."
"When presented to the people, those hearing the facts should face the facts with calmness and sobriety and then sincerely take the course that is for their best interest."
"All nations of the earth face the same condition. No one, therefore, should be moved by prejudice or partiality against another because of race, nationality, or color." (considering the 58% unemployment rate of African-Americans and considerable deportation of immigrants to provide more jobs for White men during the Depression, this is very interesting)
"What is that hideous monstrosity? It is the totalitarian government or ruling power, which makes the State supreme, regiments all the people, rules them by arbitrary dictators, compels all to render complete obedience thereto,.." (very reminisicent of George Orwell's, 1984)
Sorry for the long response....but I just wanted to show that my reasons are not as ludicrous as perhaps originally perceived. This is history in context! I love this stuff.
EDIT: Cedars....I can't help but feel somewhat alarmed and offended at your condescending tone and the numerous assumptions you've asserted about my character repeatedly and without justification.
It sound more than a bit confrontational, and pre-supposes that you have facts we need to "face."
Assumption #1
I find it difficult to imagine anyone being a fan of Rutherford or his writings in the modern age unless they are completely oblivious to any objective historical information about his character.
Assumption #2
Notice the insulting assumption that I am somehow oblivious and ignorant of the historical character of Rutherford when a): I am well aware and well studied in this era of history b): a person's character is of complete irrelevance to an individual's ability to learn, enjoy, or benefit in any form from said person's writings
Hence the complete hypocrisy in the following statement:
I still find it hard to understand why anyone would genuinely enjoy reading an entire book of this rubbish. But, each to his own. The world is such a wonderful place because we are all different.
This is a paradox if I've ever seen one. Because you can't separate an author's character from the historical/moral import of his writings it is somehow "hard to understand why anyone would genuinely enjoy reading an entire book" of this "rubbish (your opinion) and therefore anyone who does enjoy such reading is judged accordingly. Then, you attempt to deflate your own hasty generalization by stating "the world is such a wonderful place because we are all different" and yet previously you declared the book "rubbish" and "pompous" and "arrogant" since they are the "bigoted rantings of a psychopathic maniac."
I am appalled by this reasoning, quite honestly.
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40
Does it get boring....
by FaceTheFacts indoes it become boring/monotonous reading thread after thread about how terrible the gb is and how much of a cult jws are...etc.
etc.?.
.
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FaceTheFacts
Yeah I agree the meetings are usually woefully boring as well. And NO I am not counting time.....why is that even relevant to this thread?
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46
JUST finished The Gentile Times Reconsidered!
by FaceTheFacts inhaving just finished reading the gtr (4th edition), i've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections.
so my question: would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of jonnson's viewpoint?
be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a jw.. .
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FaceTheFacts
Winstonsmith.....what?! No way! I can send you a copy of it if you want.
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46
JUST finished The Gentile Times Reconsidered!
by FaceTheFacts inhaving just finished reading the gtr (4th edition), i've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections.
so my question: would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of jonnson's viewpoint?
be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a jw.. .
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FaceTheFacts
TD......good question. Have you visited and read in detail the numerous websites that specifically argue against 607? Having visited them recently, I found it of interest that a lot of the arguments those websites used, were almost exactly the same arguments Jonnson used (not that there's anything wrong about that). Also, after reading a few older threads, its become patently obvious that this is a well respected book and hence I thought it would be interesting to a lot of people to discuss it in place of the recent preponderance of atheist/creation threads.
Jeffro.....great question. I'm actually reviewing the thread Ethos and other JWs have made here so I can spot any patterns, any remiss approaches that I perhaps could make due to my unfamiliarity with the audience of this forum and what their specific affinities and/or antipathies are when it comes to argumentation. I hope my approach to be very coherent, solidly argued, and as I said not simply a rehash of what you all have debated to death. I'd like to make sure no questions/arguments go ignored as well. So in turn I'd like to ask you: From a competent debator....what do you expect?
cedars....I did not intend my name to be construed as such. For me, its a simple reminder, everytime I log in...to never let cognitive dissonance, bias, delusion or anything else to deter from facing the facts. Face The Facts is one of my fav Rutherford-era publications as well. Hope that clears that up for ya.
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19
A populations numbers game: After the flood
by PSacramento inon another forum:.
with the flood at about 4,500 years ago, it needs less than 0.5% per year growth.
i think today's rate is about 1.7%.
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FaceTheFacts
I don't think the statistical rationale of the article should be ignored due to contravening negative evidence. It is...after all, just a theory and was simply arguing against many fundamental anti-Deluvian arguments (i.e. that there was not enough time for population growth). Whether or not the Flood can be substantiated notwithstanding the archaeological and biological evidences against it is an altogether different argument.
The only major discrepancy I see thus far in the article is that it doesn't acknowledge/include reasonable variants...like others have mentioned.
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40
Does it get boring....
by FaceTheFacts indoes it become boring/monotonous reading thread after thread about how terrible the gb is and how much of a cult jws are...etc.
etc.?.
.
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FaceTheFacts
Yes...kmanc...I agree.You'll be surprised how many early writings refer to primitive Christianity as a dangerous cult.
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46
JUST finished The Gentile Times Reconsidered!
by FaceTheFacts inhaving just finished reading the gtr (4th edition), i've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections.
so my question: would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of jonnson's viewpoint?
be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a jw.. .
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FaceTheFacts
*viewpoints
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46
JUST finished The Gentile Times Reconsidered!
by FaceTheFacts inhaving just finished reading the gtr (4th edition), i've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections.
so my question: would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of jonnson's viewpoint?
be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a jw.. .
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FaceTheFacts
Having just finished reading the GTR (4th edition), I've compiled my notes and observations and am composing a comprehensive review/analysis of many sections. So my question: Would anyone be interested in reading and/or participating in a discussion about a number of Jonnson's viewpoint? Be assured, it will be of substantial merit and not the typical superficial and remiss arguments you perhaps expect from someone who is a JW.
All thoughts welcome :D