gingerbread

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Posts by gingerbread

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  23

  Maybe I am a little dense, but I just realized...

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wtbts teaches that, " the soul that is sinning..will die.

  " this was re-hashed in the what is truth talk at the dc.

  so i got to thinking about the wtbts's doctrine.

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  gingerbread

  Research Adventist's "Soul Sleep."

  Charles T. Russell borrowed this doctrine and it's been part of Bible Student and JW theology ever since!
• 
  24

  Being a jw almost killed

  by moley in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is the first time i've commented on this site, but i do enjoy to come here just to help clarify myself in times of need, ie when those wretched teachings resurface.

  a bit about myself.. i was born in 1970 into the wonderful happy organisation (lol) and had a unremarkable childhood or so i thought (apart from being abused by an ms), all i can remember is being terrified of dying at armageddon.

  attending 5 meetings a week and being used to preach as people wont shout at a child, studying the literature, not being able to watch popular tv shows, no xmas, birthdays the usual shit.. fast forward to age 16 and i fell in love with a worldly girl (the horror) and got her pregnant, my parents were devasted talking all the time how people in the borg would view them, nothing about what i was going thru, 16 and becoming a father, quite a big thing to me.

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  gingerbread

  It's a wonderful thing that you were able to get professional help and now have the tools to manage your situation!

  Elders are NOT trained counselors.

  As a result, JW's with mental, emotional, chemical, alcohol & drug problems are ostracized. Many are 'disfellowshipped' and are forced to cease all contact with family and friends - necessary elements for support and recovery.

  Unloving. Un-Christian. Amoral.
• 
  43

  2034 is going to be a huge letdown for the dubs

  by wha happened? in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've seen a few postings of a possible "next date" for dubs of 2034. based on an article they published comparing the last days to the days of noah.

  preaching for 120 years.

  however, i noticed a little tidbit from wiki about age:.

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  gingerbread

  The WBTS decision makers and writing staff before 1990 held on to the 'biblical chronology' of Russell and F. Franz. Those that came after 1990 realized that it was a real problem. They didn't change the dates. They just changed the understanding. Since then the proof of the 'end times' by dating has been backgrounded (ignored) in favor of fear mongering, guilt, intellectual isolationism and the control of the individual.
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  122

  Suspicious

  by Suspicious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i guess i'm new here.

  born in and an ms. things just hasn't been making sense the more i think about it.

  i'm starting to get suspicious.

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  gingerbread

  Be patient with yourself. It will take some time to deconstruct your personal beliefs - in order to 'see' them with any honesty. If you wish to remain in "good standing" in your congregation and with your family, keep your research to yourself.

  In addition to the suggested reading already mentioned, as some point read (and watch on youtube) Joseph Campbell...

  "Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in it's own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."
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  28

  Conversation with Substitute CO

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so i was talking to a substitute co, he and his wife recently returned from "the school for christian couples" .

  anyways this couple has delayed having children in hopes of entering the circuit work, and have been sub coing for a couple years.

  they both have well paying, good jobs.

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  gingerbread

  This couple will fit in just fine - until they get tired or grow old. Then they will be released of their duties.

  Relationships in the organization have been carefully crafted over the years. Here's how it works: the 'slave' has provided you with the "truth" and the opportunity for salvation and everlasting life (perfection) and the trade is that you give all your time (and now your mind, heart and conscience) and your money to the 'slave' or 'mother'.

  The biblical justification is that there is more happiness in giving than in receiving. Simple...right?
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  17

  "The Finished Mystery" - William Miller, a member of the "little flock"

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wiki: "william miller (february 15, 1782 december 20, 1849) was an american baptist preacher who is credited with beginning the mid-nineteenth century north american religious movement now known as adventism.

  among his direct spiritual heirs are several major religious denominations, including seventh-day adventists and advent christians.

  later movements found inspiration in miller's emphasis on bible prophecy.

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  gingerbread

  I've made the history and sources of WT beliefs and doctrines a bit of a hobby for the past two years.

  Russell and Barbour are direct "descendants" of Miller and the resulting Second Advent movement. Doctrines borrowed or refashioned from Adventist theology include : Biblical chronology based dating to predict the Second coming of Christ, "soul sleep " (the dead being conscience of nothing), a "remnant" of Christ's annointed followers rising during the final days and proclaiming the Second Advent, the "remnant" being raised to heaven before Jesus cleanses the earth of wickedness, after the "cleansing" all the dead would be resurrected and taught by the "remnant", those resurrected ones that are redeemed will live forever on a paradise earth, Jesus uses one channel of communication (the "remnant") to communicate with the world before the Advent, the "remnant" receive special understanding of bible prophecy by holy spirit, and more...
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  82

  British zone visit from David Splane - a report from the special meeting in Glasgow

  by slimboyfat in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well i went to a "special meeting" in the armadillo today where a 2 & 1/2 hour programme was relayed from london at 1pm.

  apparently the letters of invitation only went out a month or so ago and not all congregations were invited.

  there were 2,900 of us from around scotland.

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  gingerbread

  The GB is the only segment of the JW population currently living in a "paradise" like situation. EVERYTHING is taken care of for them and they have millions of dollars and potentially billions in other assets available to them. They carry on (and even expanded) the tradition that J.F. Rutherford began as second president of the WBTS. The extensive legal and service departments serve as "bodyguards" for these men. The GB gives attention and favor to the powerful (usually wealthy) individuals in the worldwide organization. All the while the average publisher gives their time and money - all they can scrape together.

  These guys are in for the long haul. New construction of facilities (headquarters, assembly halls and kingdom halls) is full steam ahead. They have no plan to "simplify" their lives. They're looking forward to living out their days in the lap of luxury.
• 
  87

  Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders"

  by applehippie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  really, the bible was written by nothin' but goat herders?

  i don't post much but this does irk me.

  yes a few may have been shepherds or fisherman, but a fair amount were far more educated and were professionals in their fields of occupation.

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  gingerbread

  The land of "Canaan" that the Isrealites settled was an excellent choice from an economic perspective. It was centrally located between many thriving cultures/nations. What we now know as Palestine was a major corridor for trade between Africa, southern Europe and the near east. With trade came cultural exchange - ideas, stories, beliefs. Most ancient Hebrew writings share the same plot lines with all of these other cultures - from Adam and Eve, the Great Flood or Jonah in the big fish. These stories (myths) were shared with these early Hebrew traders.

  Not to burst your happy bubble - but, there is no physical, archeological evidence of a large group (it is claimed to be up to 2 million) of people every being present on the Sinai Peninsula. Moses leading a group of people out of Egyptian "captivity" may have happened. But they never wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.
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  48

  With the July 15 WT approaching, would this be the ideal opportunity to start an ACTIVELY VOCAL fade?

  by Captain Blithering in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by 'actively vocal', i do not mean openly criticising the articles and pointing out the inconsistencies or flipflops (not footwear, reversals).

  i do mean letting people know that you're finding it hard to understand the new truth, and the fact that there is therefore old truth, or falsities, (is that a word?

  it is now), therefore if there are falsehoods (that's the word, of course), then that puts into doubt the extent of jah's involvement in the preparation/dissemination of it all... (and making it clear you're not saying they aren't gods prophets on earth, just that you're not sure, don't know).. the reason i ask is cos i'm finding it hard to completely fade without an external reason.

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  gingerbread

  Cap'n - as I've read some of your earlier posts on JWN, I see that you are fairly new in deciding to make an exit. I encourage you to take a step back (and a breath) and let everything "simmer" for a bit longer. Perhaps you're raising these questions because you're not sure of your immediate future. Take some time to build your own personal conviction about the realities of this religion (organization).

  You can't change your wife's mind. She must to this by herself. You can help this process along by taking time with her to "learn" about the history of JW's as an organization, the origins of the core beliefs and the changes in policies & doctrine. Be patient.

  The course you've decided upon is a "minefield." If you get excited/anxious and run across, you will take a hit. Don't blow up your marriage during the escape.
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  23

  My Grammy is dying....

  by diana netherton in

  1. social
  2. current

  she's in her last stages of luekemia.

  she fell a few days ago and she's going downhill.

  quickly.

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  gingerbread

  What a great example to follow! Your Grandmother was honest, loving, considerate and lived what she believed. It sound like she is a great human being - this has nothing to do with her religious affiliations. It must be a real honor to have know her so well. And a great way to honor her life is by living yours just as admirably!