Posts by gingerbread

122

Suspicious

by Suspicious in

i guess i'm new here.

born in and an ms. things just hasn't been making sense the more i think about it.

i'm starting to get suspicious.

Be patient with yourself. It will take some time to deconstruct your personal beliefs - in order to 'see' them with any honesty. If you wish to remain in "good standing" in your congregation and with your family, keep your research to yourself.

In addition to the suggested reading already mentioned, as some point read (and watch on youtube) Joseph Campbell...

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in it's own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."

28

Conversation with Substitute CO

by BU2B in

so i was talking to a substitute co, he and his wife recently returned from "the school for christian couples" .

anyways this couple has delayed having children in hopes of entering the circuit work, and have been sub coing for a couple years.

they both have well paying, good jobs.

gingerbread

This couple will fit in just fine - until they get tired or grow old. Then they will be released of their duties.

Relationships in the organization have been carefully crafted over the years. Here's how it works: the 'slave' has provided you with the "truth" and the opportunity for salvation and everlasting life (perfection) and the trade is that you give all your time (and now your mind, heart and conscience) and your money to the 'slave' or 'mother'.

The biblical justification is that there is more happiness in giving than in receiving. Simple...right?

17

"The Finished Mystery" - William Miller, a member of the "little flock"

by EdenOne in

wiki: "william miller (february 15, 1782 december 20, 1849) was an american baptist preacher who is credited with beginning the mid-nineteenth century north american religious movement now known as adventism.

among his direct spiritual heirs are several major religious denominations, including seventh-day adventists and advent christians.

later movements found inspiration in miller's emphasis on bible prophecy.

gingerbread

I've made the history and sources of WT beliefs and doctrines a bit of a hobby for the past two years.

Russell and Barbour are direct "descendants" of Miller and the resulting Second Advent movement. Doctrines borrowed or refashioned from Adventist theology include : Biblical chronology based dating to predict the Second coming of Christ, "soul sleep " (the dead being conscience of nothing), a "remnant" of Christ's annointed followers rising during the final days and proclaiming the Second Advent, the "remnant" being raised to heaven before Jesus cleanses the earth of wickedness, after the "cleansing" all the dead would be resurrected and taught by the "remnant", those resurrected ones that are redeemed will live forever on a paradise earth, Jesus uses one channel of communication (the "remnant") to communicate with the world before the Advent, the "remnant" receive special understanding of bible prophecy by holy spirit, and more...

82

British zone visit from David Splane - a report from the special meeting in Glasgow

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well i went to a "special meeting" in the armadillo today where a 2 & 1/2 hour programme was relayed from london at 1pm.

apparently the letters of invitation only went out a month or so ago and not all congregations were invited.

there were 2,900 of us from around scotland.

gingerbread

The GB is the only segment of the JW population currently living in a "paradise" like situation. EVERYTHING is taken care of for them and they have millions of dollars and potentially billions in other assets available to them. They carry on (and even expanded) the tradition that J.F. Rutherford began as second president of the WBTS. The extensive legal and service departments serve as "bodyguards" for these men. The GB gives attention and favor to the powerful (usually wealthy) individuals in the worldwide organization. All the while the average publisher gives their time and money - all they can scrape together.

These guys are in for the long haul. New construction of facilities (headquarters, assembly halls and kingdom halls) is full steam ahead. They have no plan to "simplify" their lives. They're looking forward to living out their days in the lap of luxury.

87

Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders"

by applehippie in

really, the bible was written by nothin' but goat herders?

i don't post much but this does irk me.

yes a few may have been shepherds or fisherman, but a fair amount were far more educated and were professionals in their fields of occupation.

gingerbread

The land of "Canaan" that the Isrealites settled was an excellent choice from an economic perspective. It was centrally located between many thriving cultures/nations. What we now know as Palestine was a major corridor for trade between Africa, southern Europe and the near east. With trade came cultural exchange - ideas, stories, beliefs. Most ancient Hebrew writings share the same plot lines with all of these other cultures - from Adam and Eve, the Great Flood or Jonah in the big fish. These stories (myths) were shared with these early Hebrew traders.

Not to burst your happy bubble - but, there is no physical, archeological evidence of a large group (it is claimed to be up to 2 million) of people every being present on the Sinai Peninsula. Moses leading a group of people out of Egyptian "captivity" may have happened. But they never wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.

48

With the July 15 WT approaching, would this be the ideal opportunity to start an ACTIVELY VOCAL fade?

by Captain Blithering in

jw
friends

by 'actively vocal', i do not mean openly criticising the articles and pointing out the inconsistencies or flipflops (not footwear, reversals).

i do mean letting people know that you're finding it hard to understand the new truth, and the fact that there is therefore old truth, or falsities, (is that a word?

it is now), therefore if there are falsehoods (that's the word, of course), then that puts into doubt the extent of jah's involvement in the preparation/dissemination of it all... (and making it clear you're not saying they aren't gods prophets on earth, just that you're not sure, don't know).. the reason i ask is cos i'm finding it hard to completely fade without an external reason.

gingerbread

Cap'n - as I've read some of your earlier posts on JWN, I see that you are fairly new in deciding to make an exit. I encourage you to take a step back (and a breath) and let everything "simmer" for a bit longer. Perhaps you're raising these questions because you're not sure of your immediate future. Take some time to build your own personal conviction about the realities of this religion (organization).

You can't change your wife's mind. She must to this by herself. You can help this process along by taking time with her to "learn" about the history of JW's as an organization, the origins of the core beliefs and the changes in policies & doctrine. Be patient.

The course you've decided upon is a "minefield." If you get excited/anxious and run across, you will take a hit. Don't blow up your marriage during the escape.

23

My Grammy is dying....

by diana netherton in

she's in her last stages of luekemia.

she fell a few days ago and she's going downhill.

quickly.

gingerbread

What a great example to follow! Your Grandmother was honest, loving, considerate and lived what she believed. It sound like she is a great human being - this has nothing to do with her religious affiliations. It must be a real honor to have know her so well. And a great way to honor her life is by living yours just as admirably!

24

The only thing a JW needs to know to be set free from their religion

by yadda yadda 2 in

jw
friends

billions of human beings right now are muslims, hindus, buddhists, etc, etc.

they do not know a jot about 'jehovah' or the 'watchtower bible & tract society of new york" etc etc.

what is going to happen to these billions of persons at armageddon?.

gingerbread

This question was the beginning of an honest evaluation of my religious upbringing and what I had come to know as the "Truth."

I knew that Jesus required Christians to love their neighbor as they do themselves. So, I put myself (mentally) in the shoes of another - perhaps a person who was my age, born in the Middle East, a follower of a non-Christian faith who is just getting on with the business of life... And an all knowing, loving and compassionate God was going to use his Son to destroy me, my family, my friends, etc just because we were born in this time period of "the end" in a part of the world that JW's didn't preach in? I was "ignorant" of the "Truth." But I was a really good person/spouse/parent who was compassionate, friendly and supportive of my family, neighbors and community...

It began a continual nagging in my mind that maybe, just maybe, we JW's have things kinda messed up. That was a new beginning...

27

How did the 1919 GB know they were chosen ?

by Phizzy in

the present gb/fds claim a kind of apostolic succession going back to the now claimed first appearance of the fds in 1919.. i don't think anywhere is it made clear who made up the fds then, but let us go along with the fiction, (in reality we know only rutherford really ruled the roost) and assume there was a group of guys who were the fds, how did they know they were chosen as such ?.

there obviously is nothing in the wt writings of the time as all this is noo lite, so, if they did not know their heaven appointed role, why would they carry it out, except by accident?

and if so, how could they possibly produce "food at the proper time "?.

gingerbread

One fact remains constant throughout the short history of this organization - whether the Bible Students or JW's - is that it's leadership has been hand picked by Jesus to represent him (and his heavenly kingdom) here on earth.

This belief (and support of this belief by the faithful) gives the leadership ultimate authority and power. To provide "proof" of their right to rule (or how they received this divine blessing) could potentially undermine their righteous and prophetically determined position.

35

Does being a "born in" blur parental vs JW issues?

by obfuscatetheobvious in

thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site!

i have browsed a few topics but the threads that i seem to gravitate to the most deal with family.

there is certainly a lot that i can relate to in many of the anecdotes i have read.

gingerbread

As a son and a father to a son, I understand where you are coming from. The rise of conflict between parent and child of the same sex has been part of human experience from "the beginning." The rising friction between a father and the growing son is a typical pattern in most mammals. There are hundreds of studies by anthropologists and psychologists that examine this phenomenon in great depth. Most agree that it serves a biological need to drive male offspring (who carry the same genetic "stuff") away from the "herd" or family unit to avoid excessive interbreeding. It's a matter of long term survival for a local subset of a particular species.

In humans, a father's "repulsion" of a son forces the child to develop independance. Unless your family has some major disfunctional issues, this "repulsion" is a natural process. Once the son physically leaves the family unit and is fully independent, the relationship between father and son transforms into something new - as grown up men, allies & confidantes that is based on mutual respect.