Posts by gingerbread

38

I want my donations back!

by Hortenzie in

i want to ask wt for my donations back.

i live in canada and i have income tax receipts from them so i can prove how much i gave them.... anybody ever tried something like that or heard about somebody doing it?

what approach should i take?.

gingerbread

ecan6 & RottenRiley - I appreciate your lines of reasoning. Here are some thoughts to consider regarding this particular situation.

The leadership of the Watchtower believes that they represent god on earth. They know that they are speaking the truth but, as we all know, the 'truth' is adjustable. They believe that they are going to heaven to rule with christ over the earth. They believe that this organization is mankinds only hope for a successful and happy future. They tell you that the money is needed for building projects, support of full time staff and travelling representatives, and for the production of literature. No deception here. In their minds (and in yours when you gave your money away) giving freely shows that you are a good christian.

They are like the Wizard of Oz - the man behind the curtain. The difference is that the GB believes that the scary, smoky 'wizard' that they operate is real. They are 100% in. They are not deceiving you when they ask for donations - god needs this money. In their minds, you gave back money to god by donating it to the organization.

Proving deceptive practices in a court of law is possible. Proving unethical behavior is much more difficult.

ginger

21

Why are they still going door to door?

by Euphemism in

hey all, long time no see!.

a friend posted the anthony morris videos on facebook today, and the ensuing conversation got me wondering: why are the jws still going door-to-door in the developed world?.

it's clearly useless as an evangelizing tactic; the wt have recognized that for 20 years, with their "go where the people are" spiel, but they also insist that it's still necessary.. .

gingerbread

At conventions and assemblies a select group of full time pioneers are always interviewed. Over the last couple of decades the focus has changed from experiences of bringing new ones into the 'truth' to 'how has pioneering benefited YOU personally'.

It's a way to get members back into the hall, to give the illusion that they are participating in meaningful activity...and it advertises to a community that Jehovah's Witnesses exist in their town.

"Advertise, advertise, advertise .... JW.org".

The tagline for 2014 !!!

ginger

52

What is the deal with the "this is the last memorial" comments from my JW?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

the guy i know was saying this the other day.. "it's been suggested this may be the last one", or words to that effect.. where & by whom?.

is this doing the rounds?.

gingerbread

"Praying for the end of time"....

38

I want my donations back!

by Hortenzie in

i want to ask wt for my donations back.

i live in canada and i have income tax receipts from them so i can prove how much i gave them.... anybody ever tried something like that or heard about somebody doing it?

what approach should i take?.

gingerbread

If you invest money into the stock market and a particular organization in your portfolio fails, you lose your money. The company used your investment any way they wanted - legal or not. You can't get it back.

If you bet on a number at the roulette table and choose a loosing number, you lose your bet. Better luck next time - or maybe a better choice would be to walk away!

You voluntarily gave your hard earned cash to the Watchtower corporation. Your donations were used in any way that they decided. You have no control of the use of funds. Failure to throughly research the organization that one is investing in is the fault of the investor. Unfortunately you placed your money on the wrong number.

You lost your investment. You lost the bet.

ginger

9

American inventions in since the 1890's

by Bella15 in

jw
friends

i just read one of your posts on how the watchtower corporation always focus on the negative side ... then it got me thinking ... we have always have murder, rape, stealing, lying, idol worshipping, hatred, men laying with men, woman layign with woman, but we have never ever ever in the billions of years of the universe and don't know how many of human history have the following (some perhaps are reinventions but nevertheless) -- did i mention facebook people?????

these are only in america, how about around the world.

there are thousands of inventions that have make life better for us, as far as the wicked heart and mind of men, that's old news ... lol ... there is nothing new about war, murder, lying, homosexualist, rape,.

gingerbread

All of these inventions are proof that we are living in the last days. And these investions were prophecied thousands of years ago and written down in the Bible. C.T. Russell and J.F. Rutherford were born and chosen by their heavenly brother Jesus to explain this to us - the ignorant masses.

Thank God that we have the Governing Body (the Mothership) and their Dukes to guide us through these perilous times!!!

ginger

39

An important question for active JW's

by Honesty in

jw
friends

if you and a fellow jehovah's witness went to a house where the homeowner brought up a watchtower doctrine which you secretly disagree with, would you defend it or tell them what it is you really believe?.

either way you are at a loss.. defending something you disagree with is living a lie and telling a lie.

not defending it and telling the home owner what you really believe makes you an apostate by watchtower society standards.

gingerbread

We stopped turning in a service report last summer after the convention. Before that I had been actively researching our religion (we were both raised-in) and I was having doubts galore.

In hind-sight we were personally questioning things for a couple of years - and this was creeping into our conversations at the door. And we began the habit of just 'working' in service as a couple - no swapping out or going in different car groups.

We used to use all the stock responses to objections - cherry pick the scriptures and use plenty of Watchtowerisms. We were considered in the congregation to be good in field service - with plenty of positive return visit experiences.

I found myself 'listening' to the person - what they were really saying, what scriptures they were using as a basis for their belief. I also began to engage in real conversation - admitting that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have all the answers.

ginger

32

Is the Watchtower Destroying All Thinking Skills of New Witness, Compare them to when you were in the Organization!

by RottenRiley in

many jws don't know the basic doctrines we all use to debate the clergy with.. .

jws don't know the bible, the know a few proof-texts but can't handle the bible like the witnesses of 1950s-1990s, what happened?.

the caliber of the new elders is horrible when compared with the elders of 1950s-1990s, they don't know how to use their bible, they are turning towards orgnazational minor details while ignoring the bible and gospel message.. .

gingerbread

The OP references 'thinking skills of new Witnesses'.

This question is significant and should be of great concern.

In developed parts of the world, it's reported that the majority of baptismal candidates are born-in/raised-in youths. Many of these young kids have born-in parents. It's their grandparents who studies with Jehovah's Witnesses and made an adult decision to become members of this religion.

As a result, the 'new' ones are products of generational mental simplification. To compound the problem, the WT refuses to give the okay to it's members to pursue professional degrees through higher education.

The 'new' Witness finds himself with only a basic (at best) understanding of history, science, the arts and economics. His earning potential is well below the median for his part of the world.

He needs outside structure (his religion) to dictate how he will participate in life. He is a conformist. He is only concerned with the basic necessities of life (like a baby). He is dependent. He is controlled.

ginger

32

Is the Watchtower Destroying All Thinking Skills of New Witness, Compare them to when you were in the Organization!

by RottenRiley in

many jws don't know the basic doctrines we all use to debate the clergy with.. .

jws don't know the bible, the know a few proof-texts but can't handle the bible like the witnesses of 1950s-1990s, what happened?.

the caliber of the new elders is horrible when compared with the elders of 1950s-1990s, they don't know how to use their bible, they are turning towards orgnazational minor details while ignoring the bible and gospel message.. .

gingerbread

For a century they have been telling us that we can come to a true understanding of the Bible ONLY by reading and studying their publications.

They ain't jokin'.

You can't trust your neighbors, your relatives, your heart, your emotions, your ability to reason, your thoughts...your mind. You MUST NOT read the Bible alone or on your own.

You MUST trust them exclusively (loyalty) and without question (doubts).

No longer does a gray area, conscience matter or personal choice exist in the organization/congregation.

Those days are long gone.

ginger

33

Special Assembly Day - tepid applause

by sir82 in

jw
friends

just got back from a recent sad.. after most talks, the applause was, at most, tepid.. it was striking in its tepidity, if that is possible (and if that is a word).. affter most talks, applause lasted literally no more than 5 seconds.

its volume was scarcely above a whisper.. it wasn't acoustics - the bethel speaker was technically a polished speaker (although presenting the same old boring info), and his talks generated noticeably louder applause.

but even still - that applause was maybe 10 seconds, and about normal-conversation level.. but local speakers - the applause was not much more loud than the hum coming from your refrigerator.. there were 1300+ people there.. it was just so weird - my previous large-group experience was at the agm, where people were nearly apoplectic & drooling with delight over their new "silver bibles" (which very few have read, i'd wager).. these guys were just "zombified".. speaking of bibles - bethel dude called it a "platinum bible".

gingerbread

Over the years the WT leaders have taken away what little bit of fun/joy/emotion that could be shared.

We used to have small orchestras or bands play the songs at conventions and most halls had a piano and a player.

We had parties for those that were baptized or gave their first talk.

We had large congregation (or multi-congregation) 'get togethers' with hamburgers and baseball.

We had 'book studies' in homes with snacks (and beer/wine) afterward. We played tag in the back yards or caught lighting bugs. We had our first crushes there too.

We looked forward to conventions and assemblies to look for someone to date (and they weren't crazy, homeschooled, JW rules worshipers).

We used to be able to hold hands and hug our spouse (or boyfriend/girlfriend) during the prayer.

The energy is now all gone.

Most that regularly attend meetings & assemblies are aged - and have heard this stuff a thousand times.... bored. Alone.

ginger

44

The purpose of changing JW names, titles and terms

by gingerbread in

during a discussion over the weekend, we exchanged ideas about recent changes in terminology related to assembly days, conventions and new titles for the higher-ups.

i commented that for years in 'security' at larger meetings we were told to talk to any that seemed out of place and ask questions that would indicate if they were apostates - antiquated terms like 'overseer' or a reference the 'truth' book.. another in our group brought up the character in the orwell book 1984 and how his job was to separate new and approved terms from old words.

this was called doublethink and blackwhite.

gingerbread

My dad worked in accounting at the Conventions for many years. He showed me recently that only brothers with special colored stickers on the back of their convention badges were allowed access to the $ counting room.

When anyone approached the convention 'office' they had to lift the badge and show the attendents (guards) at the door the stickers. Different stickers allowed access to different areas of the guarded office.

The structure of the inner workings of the Org. are clubby and secret in ways the publisher never realizes. Information is also given out (to quote the JW rule) on a "need to know basis".

ginger