What they teach changes, constantly, so even if you did accept what they taught at one point in time, you would have to have committed to believe anything they might potentially teach in the future, no matter what they teach, which I certainly did not do at the time of my baptism at age 12.
Afterburn
JoinedPosts by Afterburn
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5
Who Is He?
by APieceOfShitNamedTate inwho is this brother on an appeal committee @4:00?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nflfchtsca.
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Running Ahead of the Organization
by Sea Breeze inthat was a phrase that used to irritate me to no end.
good thing this woman wasn't a jw.
some people just can't wait.
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Afterburn
When I was 16 years old, I asked the Circuit Overseer whenever the Organization published an explanation of prophecy that later turned out to be wrong, hadn't they run ahead of Jehovah, on the basis of Genesis 40:8? He really did not like that question, at all. Neither did my dad, the Presiding Overseer of our congregation, at the time.
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So how "worldly" did you get after you left the "truth"
by greenhornet ini don't drive a 4 door car.
lol.
i go to a local christian church.
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Afterburn
This will be fun. Let's see, I'm tattooed, they wouldn't like that very much, but it wasn't out of any act of rebellion.
Oh, and I am a community covered Leather Master (sweaty Leather Daddy Bear), I'm openly queer, I'm a national educator on BDSM topics related to consensual power exchange (i.e. Dominant/submissive, Daddy or Mommy/little, Owner/pet, Master or Mistress or Mx/slave) relationships and on the topic of Leather History in the United States, I haven't acquired any STIs and hope to keep it that way, I'm a bearded "sexual deviant" who owns a slave/little girl/kitten, I routinely counter-protest Bible thumping evilgelicals who seek to silence or demonize trans people or anyone else in an LGBTQUIA+ marginalized group, I am an active social advocate for human rights applying equally to all humans (and no, I don't mean a keyboard warrior).
I hope to formally start a church soon: Church of Universal Pervaciousness. I currently have a group of people submitting books to build what will be our religious order's Scripture. Very different perspectives from very divergent backgrounds in each book, set to a common overall "tone." The Church will promote engagement in and delight in consensual perversity as a sacred spiritual act of worship offered to the Universe; and will impose no penalties, at all (social or otherwise), for choosing not to do so ... voyeurism and exhibitionism will be celebrated as activities that connect to the Universal Divine.
If the church becomes international, it will be I.C.U.P. and that's just delightful to me, on an entirely sophomoric level.
I suspect any of that would be extremely unwelcome, among Jehovah's Witnesses, except for intending to avoid STIs. While I acknowledge that as a simple fact, the reality is that how a rather insignificant filthy little cult would perceive anything in my life has nothing whatsoever to do with any choice I make. -
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Enjoyed the Memorial
by ScottyRex inprobably not a popular opinion on here....and haven't been actively attending meetings since 1988....(i know i know a submarine attender) however thoroughly enjoyed attending this evening...was good to see lots of people i remember whilst growing up in this faith, they were genuine and the whole atmosphere was one of love.
sure if i suddenly wanted to become active again and didn't change my lifestyle they would drop me like a bomb.....however i haven't and won't and they didn't and don't.
this works for me.. i cannot demonize the witnesses on what i have seen tonight.
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Afterburn
So, if I understand this thread correctly, a purportedly gay guy just pops in every now and again to see who he can stir up by lying to them. Is that right? Feeding trolls just makes them stronger.
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New Book: Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last!
by Afterburn init is a new book, now available on their website in pdf, and it is basically an update to survival—into a new earth!
(1984), the book that convinced me to get baptized at age 12.. i'm not going to review the entire book here.. because matthew 28:18-20 specifies baptizing as part of the great commission, and because hebrews 6:1-2 lists the teaching on baptisms as among the primary doctrine about the christ, i intend to focus on the portion of the new publication that deals with baptism.. in chapter 16, on pages 178 and 179, paragraph 17 states:.
17 to survive the coming destruction, individuals need to prove their faith now.
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Afterburn
Thanks, mikeflood, Bobcat, and Slidin Fast.
Finkelstein, your post reminds me of Ezekiel 13, with a splash of 1 John 4:1, for good measure.
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New Book: Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last!
by Afterburn init is a new book, now available on their website in pdf, and it is basically an update to survival—into a new earth!
(1984), the book that convinced me to get baptized at age 12.. i'm not going to review the entire book here.. because matthew 28:18-20 specifies baptizing as part of the great commission, and because hebrews 6:1-2 lists the teaching on baptisms as among the primary doctrine about the christ, i intend to focus on the portion of the new publication that deals with baptism.. in chapter 16, on pages 178 and 179, paragraph 17 states:.
17 to survive the coming destruction, individuals need to prove their faith now.
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Afterburn
It is a new book, now available on their Website in PDF, and it is basically an update to Survival—Into a New Earth! (1984), the book that convinced me to get baptized at age 12.
I'm not going to review the entire book here.
Because Matthew 28:18-20 specifies baptizing as part of the Great Commission, and because Hebrews 6:1-2 lists the teaching on baptisms as among the primary doctrine about the Christ, I intend to focus on the portion of the new publication that deals with baptism.
In chapter 16, on pages 178 and 179, paragraph 17 states:
17 To survive the coming destruction, individuals need to prove their faith now. As we saw earlier, those who survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E. demonstrated beforehand their heartfelt rejection of wickedness and their devotion to pure worship. It is similar today. Before the destruction comes, individuals need to be “sighing and groaning”—deeply grieved at heart—over the wickedness of this world. And rather than hide their feelings, they must demonstrate by words and actions their devotion to pure worship. How can they do so? They need to react favorably to the preaching work that is being done today, to continue putting on a Christlike personality, to get baptized in symbol of their dedication to Jehovah, and to support Christ’s brothers loyally. (Ezek. 9:4; Matt. 25:34-40; Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 3:21) Only those who pursue such a course now—and who enter the great tribulation as pure worshippers—will be in a position to be marked for survival.
The question for the paragraph can, predictably, be answered by dutifully "studying" the paragraph to find the verbatim answer, and somehow indicating that you have found the pre-approved appropriate words ... think Word Search puzzles.
The Scriptures provided in support are very odd, though.
The verse from Ezekiel invites the reader to infer a second fulfillment never discussed in the Bible and to impose this as Scriptural fact, rather than as mere interpretive opinion from a group of men. The verse from Matthew can be fulfilled by literally anyone; Jesus is quoted as saying as much, explicitly. The verse from Ephesians is written to an established congregation of First Century Christians who were already long since baptized, and is no part of what Christians were ever told to preach to anyone.
That brings us to the verse from 1 Peter 3:21. It's the only one that mentions baptism, but it doesn't mention "dedication." It is impossible to read the dictionary definition of the word "dedication" and twist baptism, as discussed at 1 Peter 3:18-22, into meaning that.If what I am saying is new to you, or you have been one of Jehovah's Witnesses for a long time, please consider carefully whether you have ever seen a Scripture that states baptism is in symbol of dedication to Jehovah.
According to the Bible, Christian baptism is in symbol of reconciliation, not in symbol of dedication. Christians have been given no ministry of dedication (2 Corinthians 5:11-6:2), the Great Commission at Matthew 28:18-20 does not mention collecting dedications from anyone.
Reconciliation and dedication are two vastly different concepts.
From within the JW mindset, it makes sense that there would have to be lots of requirements before baptism, because one has so much to learn before they would be qualified to make a vow of dedication ... a vow the Bible nowhere establishes as a requisite for Christian baptism and one that is a custom invented by men.
When one adopts the concept of "reconciliation" as the capsule of Christian ministry, as Paul encourages (2 Corinthians 5:11-6:2), that is, as the summation in one word of the Great Commission Jesus gave to his followers, it become easy to understand how 3,000 were baptized in one day, and 5,000 were baptized another day, how the Ethiopian eunuch was baptized after a short chariot ride, and Cornelius along with all his assembled pagan guests and family were baptized after hearing fewer than 200 Greek words of preaching from Peter, how Lydia and the Philippian jailer were baptized without delay after very brief preaching ... because, Christian baptism is not a symbol of dedication. (Acts ... yeah, you can read the entire book, it won't kill you)
Matthew 11:27-30 depicts Jesus teaching that only those to whom the Son is willing to reveal the Father can ever come to know the Father, then immediately, Jesus commands, "Come to me ... I will refresh you. Take my yoke ... learn from me ... my yoke is kindly and my load is light."
2 Corinthians 5 also shows Jesus as the starting point for reconciliation to God.
Nowhere in the Bible is anyone ever required to make a specific declaration of dedication to God prior to their Christian baptism, that is, prior to baptism that is a request made to God for a good conscience. (1 Peter 3:18-22) Nowhere in the Bible is publicly confessing loyalty to any religion used as a test of one's fitness for baptism.
These fundamental ideas are simply not found in the Bible.
Hebrews 6:1-2 says the teaching on baptisms is among the primary doctrine about the Christ and calls this primary doctrine "a foundation." Jehovah's Witnesses have the basics wrong, the very foundation of Christianity.
Is it any wonder then, that they cannot get past their allegiance to a religion, when their entire concept of Christianity is founded upon that idolatrous basis?
And that's without even getting into the fact that no one can find qualifications set forth in the Bible by which any person can become "qualified" as an "unbaptized publisher" of the good news. "Unbaptized publisher" is a concept that is completely man-made and is one not found in First Century Christianity.
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Has anyone on here used this forum to announce they were out and revealed their real name?
by HiddenPimo injust wondering if anyone has ever posted their personal information and have proof that the borg is watching and sent the gestapo to get them?.
i will be announcing my resignation and da myself - and i am objectively looking at either doing it bud dwyer (not really like him but by extension) style at a meeting or an email blast or just giving a letter to the boe?.
any advice is appreciated.
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Afterburn
... doesn't accomplish much to help those still trapped inside! IMHO that is!— eyeuse2badub
eyeuse2badub, if I consider my life, time, and energy spent as one of Jehovah's Witnesses to have been wasted on far worse than nothing at all, why would I escape only to spend considerable life, time, and energy on the cultish religion I left, rotting like a diseased corpse behind me?
At first, I thought I might be able to get my wife out (now ex-wife) and I held out some hope I might be able to get my parents out, so I tried (unsuccessfully) to fade. That failed.
Once upon a time, in my life, I was on a quest to save the whole world of "ungodly mankind" from nothing much at all by convincing them to become a part of something pernicious and atrocious. I am not on a quest to save everybody, or even large groups of people, anymore. If you still have people in and you still have hope of reaching them, I understand why you want to, I did, too.
I have successfully helped out most of my closest friends. I have helped my brother (by blood) and his children to shift from POMI to POMO. I have tilted at all the windmills I have strength to confront among JWs.
Whether we are leading by example by directly shrinking their numbers, or whether we're doing battle against their promoted ideas, or whether we're banding together for support and fellowship, or whether we're letting the religion and the trauma it inflicted become a distant memory of how we once identified "self" before we knew better ... however someone breaks free and whatever their current intent, I'll celebrate with them, without judging them harshly. After all, they've survived a cult. However they need to cope is just fine with me. -
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Has anyone on here used this forum to announce they were out and revealed their real name?
by HiddenPimo injust wondering if anyone has ever posted their personal information and have proof that the borg is watching and sent the gestapo to get them?.
i will be announcing my resignation and da myself - and i am objectively looking at either doing it bud dwyer (not really like him but by extension) style at a meeting or an email blast or just giving a letter to the boe?.
any advice is appreciated.
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Afterburn
I was asked about many posts I had made on a forum with discussions of Jehovah's Witnesses, by two men I once believed were brothers of mine, who were investigating allegations of apostasy that had been leveled against me. I asked them for the provenance of the sheaf of printed pages they offered and what it was that made them believe I had written them.
They told me that they weren't going to discuss with me how they came by them, they simply wanted to know whether I was willing to claim them as my own expressions. I told them I wasn't willing to discuss with them pages they had printed out from online sources, but that I would be happy to discuss with them what I thought about any issue they wanted to raise with me. They left me with the impression they intended to convene a Judicial Committee to disfellowhip me (no, I spelled it right), so, I disassociated myself. I just learned the term today, but I am POMO. Very, exceedingly, extremely, o-u-t ... in more ways than just a few. 🏳️🌈
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Afterburn
My father would tell you that no one is ever disfellowshipped for adultery, but only ever for a lack of repentance.
Realistically, 1) if you sufficiently convince the elders you are repentant, 2) if the offense is not extremely public, and 3) there aren't any children produced from the adultery (no unavoidable extant proof) ... you could be privately reproved and no one ever even know besides those directly involved and the elders.
Odds of that outcome might improve if several members of your family are on the elder body, or they might worsen, it depends a lot on the attitudes of the elders in question and on their perspective of you.
How long someone would be disfellowshipped for failing to convince a small group of men that they were repentant varies, greatly, and still, at some point, reinstatement always involves successfully convincing a small group of men they were repentant.
None of it is clear cut, ever. Like all life inside the religion, there is a continual undercurrent of, "Be hyper-vigilant! What would everyone else think? What if Brother Stickler or Sister Buttinski saw / heard about that?"
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Was There An Occasion Where An Entire Congregation Broke Away?
by pale.emperor ini remember reading somewhere (perhaps on here?
) than an entire congregation disassociated and started their own congregation after decided that the gb were apostate.. was this an urban myth or is there any evidence of this?.
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Afterburn
In the late 70's through early 80's several congregations in the greater Atlanta, GA area were disbanded. Jay Woods was sent in to help "clean up" that mess. Read: To help stop the free flow of proprietary confidential Corporate information through threats of ostracism. Last I knew, he and Nancy still lived in the Forest Park area.