There is NO way, if there is a God, that he wrote or had written the Bible for our enlightenment. NO FUCKING way. It's far to confusing far to duplicitous. Too many interpretations all of it makes no sense whatsoever. It's a book written by man. God is a great concept, one that I do believe in to some degree, but I know that there are NO religions on this Earth that have it all right. In fact to my mind the only religion we really need is our conscience. Follow that, most people would agree that causing pain to another (human or animal) intentionally is wrong. So avoid that and love each other, do good and try very hard to do no harm. Live your life. There is most likely something more after this, something so wonderful we can not even comprehend it. If God really wanted us to know what this 'something' was we would know. If HE really wanted us to worship him in a certain fashion we WOULD fucking know. Period. The Bible is a joke, ALL religion is a joke, a very bad man-made joke. Follow your heart and your conscience and enjoy your damn life.
Freeandclear
JoinedPosts by Freeandclear
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God does not desire any to be destroyed?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.
why are there thousands of differing religions?.
why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.
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In a really good place right now.....
by Freeandclear ini'm in a great place mentally and spiritually in my life right now.
i just wanted to share.
because i know many of you are new and have just left the borg and well there are some tough times ahead but i want to assure you you can get through this and come out the other side much happier and more at peace.. i'm 44. got baptized at 18. was a convert not a born in.
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Freeandclear
Heartsafire. Honestly, I'm not sure. I have always from a very young age believed in God. When I woke up my whole life was turned upside down and I got to a point where I was very angry with god then to a point where I didn't even think he existed. Or if he did he didn't care about us at all.... It was a very dark place to be.
Then the other night I realized I needed god. Not that he needed me, or that some religion was telling me I needed him or that I needed saving. I don't believe in any of that. I just knew I personally needed him in my life, or at least the idea of him. I don't believe the Bible is god's word. I just don't think it can be. No way an almighty being would write that book. I'm not saying it doesn't have some good things in it or something's worth reading but it's definitely not from God imo.
I simply came to realize that whatever I chose to believe the end result is the exact same. I will die. Period. We all will. And 2, no one has the answers. So I could chose to be miserable thinking God doesn't exist and that our existence is pointless or I could chose to believe that god does exist and there is some reason we are here. We may not know the answers but at least my mind is open to the idea of god and a higher purpose, and for me that was all I needed. No more hopelessness, no more despair or depression of my existential crisis. It just simply vanished. Quite amazing really.
So where did it come from? I don't know. Just my own brain realizing that the better of two evils was to believe in something rather than nothing.
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In a really good place right now.....
by Freeandclear ini'm in a great place mentally and spiritually in my life right now.
i just wanted to share.
because i know many of you are new and have just left the borg and well there are some tough times ahead but i want to assure you you can get through this and come out the other side much happier and more at peace.. i'm 44. got baptized at 18. was a convert not a born in.
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Freeandclear
I'm in a great place mentally and spiritually in my life right now. I just wanted to share. Why? Because I know many of you are new and have just left the bOrg and well there are some tough times ahead but I want to assure you you can get through this and come out the other side much happier and more at peace.
I'm 44. Got baptized at 18. Was a convert not a born in. Struggled with guilt and depression and pent up sexual urges the entire time I was in. Left at 21 for 7 years (got married to a "worldly" girl) then right after my divorce I got back in. The guilt and depression were soon to catch back up with me....so I was floating in and out of meetings for the next 10 years or so... Got reproved once and then finally April of 2015 I got disfellowshipped because I was still in love with a girl (worldly) and unrepentant.
After my df'ing I started to really dig into this religion. For some reason I no longer felt afraid of "Apostate" websites and such since I was df'd anyway. Found jwfacts.com and wow, what an eye opener. I had read CoC by Franz a couple of years before my df'ing and while enlightening it didn't really open my eyes to TTATT at that time. I would say I've been fully awake for about a year now.
The hardest part for me wasn't losing those that I called my friends, and I had no family in the Troof so that wasn't really an issue for me, the hard part was losing all the answers. I always felt like I had it all figured out. Knew all the big answers to life's questions. Nothing phased me as a J-dub. Now that was all gone! No more answers. I missed that feeling of knowing it all and having a hope for something better....that killed me inside and I proceeded to have an existential crisis. You can read more about that in the other threads I started if you like....
My crisis got so bad for a while that I seriously considered suicide. It just sucked to feel like there was no point to living. You see, after my awakening I started to seriously doubt the existence of God, and thus for ME with no God this equaled no purpose, no hope, no point to any of this. I got to a very very dark place. I was drinking a lot and things were just not good at all.
Then I had a realization. I could live this life feeling hopeless and like there was no point to it or I could find some way to deal with it. Either way the end result is the same. I'm going to die. That's just a part of life. We were conditioned as JW's to see death as something UN-natural and something to be hated, something that wasn't supposed to happen. But finally I saw the truth of the situation. Death IS a natural part of life. Death is normal. Everything dies. Plants, animals and yes humans. It's part of the cycle of life.
So what made me finally okay with all of this terrible reality? This one idea: Perhaps there is a god and perhaps we're just not meant to know all the answers right now. This one thought brought me so much peace. The depression and hopelessness of my situation instantly disappeared upon this realization. We don't have to know all the answers. We (all of us; ie. every human who's ever lived) don't know what's next. We don't know why we are here and what the purpose of this life is. But that does not mean there isn't one! Yes, this idea really helped me. I came to realize that perhaps there is something much more going on here that we can even comprehend at this point. Again, either way the end result is the same. We die. Some day I, you, and all that have ever and will ever live will stop breathing and will cease to exist as humans. But that does not necessarily mean that is the end. I'm not saying it is or it isn't, what I'm saying is the way we choose to PERCEIVE this idea is what can make all the difference.
If I think, okay I'm just going to die and be forgotten and that's it, then I'm miserable (I was anyway....I'm sure some can be perfectly fine with this idea but I could not) or I could think, okay I'm going to die, everyone is but that doesn't mean it's the end. There could be a million different things that happen after, and a million different reasons why we are here and why we are humans with this short life. This idea really brought me peace and put things in perspective for me.
I don't have the answers, and now I'm okay with that. I'm not mad at god anymore. I'm just a human with this life to live. I can chose to waste my time trying to figure out the unknowable (all the big answers) and be miserable (after all no one has ever figured it out; if they did we'd all know about it!), or I can appreciate each day and enjoy it and have a hope that something else does happen and that at some future time all the answers will be revealed to us all.
Either way the end result is the same. We die. One of two possibilities exist after death: 1. it's the end and that's that, eternal non-existence or 2. something else happens. In the first case I will not know anything anyway so why stress about it now? In the second case: GREAT! Something else!
The difference for me is NOW. How I chose to believe or open my mind to the possibilities of something else. This has brought me peace and I'm am very very thankful.
I prayed the other night for the first time in a very long time. It wasn't to Jehovah, it was just to god. I told him I was done being mad at him and that I needed the idea of him in my life. I expressed my thoughts to him and perhaps I was merely talking to myself in my head, it really doesn't matter in the end, because for me it helped. It helped me NOW. It's helping me to live each day and enjoy each day to the full just having the idea that possibly there is a god and something else after this life.
I know this won't work for everyone. But it's working for me, and I just wanted to share in case anyone else is going through something similar. My only thought for you is keep your mind open to the possibilities. We don't know anything. It's isn't for us apparently to know, because, if it were I think God would have made things crystal clear and he hasn't therefore perhaps were just here for a short time to enjoy this life and what it has to offer. We just don't know, but that doesn't mean nothing happens.
Hope this made some semblance of sense to someone.
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UPDATE: My existential crisis comes to a close
by Freeandclear inin case you read my other thread regarding my existential crisis and how it was making my life miserable and left me feeling hopeless, purposeless and joyless i though i'd share what's recently happened to me and my way of thinking and have i've for the time being resolved my existential crisis.
i write every day in a journal.
i've been doing this for years.
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Freeandclear
Hello again all of you. In case you read my other thread regarding my existential crisis and how it was making my life miserable and left me feeling hopeless, purposeless and joyless I though I'd share what's recently happened to me and my way of thinking and how I've for the time being resolved my existential crisis.
I write every day in a journal. I've been doing this for years. I'm an introspective type and I'd rather write my thoughts down to get them out than to try and discuss all this stuff with another person..... So what follows is a direct quote from my journal from a few days ago, hope you enjoy it and I sincerely hope it helps someone else. Also, thanks to all of you who gave me advice in the other thread.
And now...... existential crisis resolved.
So the other night -- "I went to bed and I did something I haven't done in a long time. I prayed. I basically said that I need god. I'm tired of being mad at him or blaming him. And it's true, I do need God in my life. Not in the JW way or any other religion's way but in my own way. And honestly I really feel that in order for me to continue on with life I have to find a way to include the idea of god. Why? Because to my mind without something greater than myself there is no hope, no point to any of this. The best I can think of for now is this: I don't have all the big answers, no one does, they are in fact unknowable, thus those answers must not be meant for us at this time. In other words, it doesn't belong to me to know the answers. All I can do is look around me and enjoy the beauty that life has to offer and go on day by day trusting that something greater exists and that someday I will have the answers. I mean when I die either that's it and it's over and I won't even know it anyway (and if I exclude the idea of God then I miss out on the wonder and beauty of this one life) or something does happen and then I will know at least that one answer: what happens after I die? Also, it felt very good to pray. I cried. I felt comforted. I felt heard. I don't know if any of that is just a figment of my imagination or a process unique to the human mind or what but it's something. I got some peace from my existential crisis and some small amount of hope. I can't focus on THEN, if I do that I'm simply doing the same thing I was conditioned to do as a JW, I must live for the now, and appreciate the time I have here now. Life is short and it's flying by, it will all be over before I know it, so why not enjoy the ride. Take pleasure in the simple things. A warm beautiful day, walking and talking with someone I care about or find interesting, being kind to others, petting an animal, seeing the fish in the ocean, watching the sunset, breathing in the sea air, etc.... there are a million things to enjoy and to love and take pleasure in all without hurting anyone else. And if I include the idea of God then I also have someone to talk to and to thank and to rely upon and to give me hope for something after, something better, greater, or at least something. So that's what I'VE decided to believe. To exclude him would be suicide for me. I know this. It's too much a part of who I am as a human. Maybe it's all bunk, but the alternative is worse, much much worse....no hope, despair and misery. So therefore He's in. :) And I'm happier for it. I will keep my eye out for his answers and his voice and I will try and let him lead me, even if it is just my own mind or consciousness influencing the universe and electrons around me, whatever it is it FEELS real thus for me it is real. End of story really. Glad that is taken care of to be honest. I have been dying inside over this quandary and I'm now okay and much more at peace with everything. Just like that."
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Need some help: Existential crisis in full swing
by Freeandclear inso is anyone else having an existential crisis after becoming fully awake?
let me explain.
about 2 years ago i read coc, still believed and tried to get back in da troof.
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Freeandclear
Thanks everyone for your replies, much appreciated.
It's been a few days since this post started and I wanted to update some.
I decided to quit drinking. I have pain in my right side for a while now which is not a good sign, most likely fatty liver or inflammed liver due to heavy sustained alcohol consumption. Hopefully it will subside in a few weeks.
On another note, I get what most of you are saying. I've been doing a lot of reading on absurdism, nihilism and existentialism and all of these basically say the same things that most of you are saying: we exist, there are no rules, make your own rules and purpose to life, do no harm, etc.....
My problem with all of this is simply this: what does any of it matter in the end? One day we will all be gone. No one will remember any thing about us, given enough time. If I hurt someone today yes it hurts them for now, maybe even for the rest of their short life but in the end what does it matter at all? It simply does not.
Think about this; humanity in general. We are just an animal that happens to have self-awareness. We know we exist and we know that we will die. All we do as humans is "distract" ourselves. We grow up, we seek a career, we fall in love, we get hobbies, we raise our children, etc.... all of these distract us from the big looming reality over us all that one day we will no longer exist and that nothing we did/said/though will be remembered or matter.
How many humans that have ever existed do we still remember today? Sure there are a few, but a very very few, and given enough time even the memory of those few will be snuffed out. So what? Even if we remember the words of Aristotle or whomever else forever what does it matter to the dead Aristotle? It doesn't because he no longer exists. And further more, even if it did, he was one many among billions.
I'll be honest, I'm not handling this very well at all. I find no joy in anything right now, I see no point in going on and no end in sight. The only end is the one end I'm stressing over right now and IDK it's all just so pointless. I'm making myself sick even talking about all of it, but it's there underneath all my thoughts every day. I see no joy in life and even if I did, deep down there is still death coming.
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Need some help: Existential crisis in full swing
by Freeandclear inso is anyone else having an existential crisis after becoming fully awake?
let me explain.
about 2 years ago i read coc, still believed and tried to get back in da troof.
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Freeandclear
So is anyone else having an existential crisis after becoming fully awake? I sure am.
Let me explain. About 2 years ago I read CoC, still believed and tried to get back in da troof. Got DF'd instead and then found jwfacts and that really made me see reality. That was about a year and a half ago now. Since that time I've been reading here regularly and also elsewhere and in my own reasonings have come to conclude that 1. there is no god at all, or 2. if there is a god he/she/it does not care at all about us or how we worship. I am mainly leaning about 90% towards 1. I really don't think a creator or god exists at all.
Since this realization I have been having an existential crisis. I went from having a purpose and meaning in life and a very bright future to the stark reality that nothing I do matters in the end. Nothing is coming but worm food. The end. Lights out. Forever. Granted no one, NO ONE knows for sure what may be the true reality or what might happen after we depart but damn it sure seems to me like the answer is nothing.
So with this new found belief I have come to the conclusion that the best thing I can do is enjoy every day and to treat others as well as I can without compromising my own happiness, and I really do try to do this.
I see god and religion now in a new light; to me it's nothing more than a feeble attempt by ALL humans to dispell their own existential crisis. After all if you truly believe as I do I think most if not all humans will feel this same way. I mean, if this life is all we have and nothing follows and in the end nothing you do/say/think matters and is eventually forgotten (and it will be given enough time) then what the hell is the point of living at all? Just to enjoy some brief moments of happiness while the vast majority of life is full of pain? I don't know how much longer I can go on. Everyone involved in religion has a purpose. They are all fighting for something and have a deep belief in it. I totally get it. And I was very much there once myself. I was always fighting to be good enough for the Paradise, it was shit but at least it was something, some hope to cling to, that one day, one day I would truly be happy, etc.....
I'm NOT throwing a pity party for myself here, that is absolutely not the intent of this post. I am reaching out to you all, and especially those who have come through this phase of awakening successfully and have found a way to deal with it and to be happy.
Currently I'm dealing with it in the worst way possible. I drink. Every single night for the past two years more or less I've been drinking heavily. I'm really not trying to sound like a "told ya so" story..... ie. leave Jehovah and end up a miserable drunk. It's not Jehovah, or the JW religion that's done this to me, it's my own inability to find meaning in life now that ALL religion and all idea of God is gone from my consciousness. I am miserable all day at work. I come home and I'm miserable there too. I'm with friends and family and for a while I might forget the misery but deep down....still miserable. The only time I'm anything close to happy is when I'm drinking. Instant happiness for a while. Or having sex.....that makes anyone happy. But these things are not a healthy way to be happy because they are harmful (liver damage/unwanted pregnancy/stds/emotional distress) and fleeting. For now however it's all I've got and I'm making the most of it. But I don't want to live out my remaining years like this. I want to find real happiness and meaning in my life and I just can't seem to figure this out.
So if anyone of you has any helpful experiences of your own or advice please please share those with me. I really need help before I damage myself in some what that's irreparable.
Sincerely and with thanks.
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The bigger picture
by Freeandclear ini've been awake now for a good while.
about a year.
in that year i've done a lot of soul searching and thinking about god and religion etc.... as i'm sure most all of us have who've left this cult.
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Freeandclear
I've been awake now for a good while. About a year. In that year I've done a lot of soul searching and thinking about God and religion etc.... as I'm sure most all of us have who've left this cult. Of course I check in here and have been quite frequently. Reading posts on here has really helped me and it's so great to know I'm by no means alone in the feelings and experiences I've had. We are all in the same boat. We all went from having literally ALL the answers and all the hope in the world to having nothing. No answers, no hope for our "eternal future", etc.... This can of course cause a lot of heartache, depression, mental confusion, etc....
The question really comes down to God. Does he exist? This was always my fundamental approach when talking to someone at the door. First, do they believe in God, next do they believe in the Bible, then from there we could discuss doctrine etc.... So for me it has been the same. Do I believe in God? That was the question.
Of course I wanted to believe in God. I wanted to believe that this life here on Earth is not all there is, and that there is something more out there after. But in the past year my thinking has slowly changed. I started to ask myself: Why do I want there to be something more? And the startling answer comes back to this; when we are unhappy or unwilling/unable to change something bad about our lives NOW we as humans tend to look to the future. Happiness is never a NOW thing, it's an "IF" thing. As in, IF I have lots of friends/money/free time/new TV/new car or whatever you think will make you happy....THEN I will be happy. This kind of thinking is rampant in life today, and most likely has been for all of human history. We are always striving as humans for more, for better, for an easier life. But the fact is we can not find happiness in the future, happiness is not a THING to be found. It's a condition of the mind. A naturally occurring state of being that comes when we are at peace with ourselves, and especially when we feel secure.
When one does not feel secure and at peace happiness can seem very far away. As we all know, this life with it's typical worries and with our declining health as we age naturally brings us into a state of worry and insecurity and thus we start looking to a "future better time". This makes us all look for God, or as I like to refer to "him": the ultimate panacea. The ultimate cure for all our unhappiness.
Recently I had a new realization. In order to have true peace and true happiness we need to have the facts and not be in some delusional state of mind about reality. And for us, there is only one reality. We all live now, and we will all die. That is truth. No one who has ever lived can deny that fact. So I started thinking hard about this and it was a funny and startling realization that Yes, I too will one day die. And not too far off either..... time goes by very fast. I'm 44, and each week now seems to feel like just a day or two, months now feel like weeks did back when I was in my 20's and 30's. A year....feels like just a few months. Most humans with good health make it to about 75 or so, so I've got about 30 years left. 30 years ago I was 14 and I remember exactly what I was like and how my life was then, and it doesn't feel very long ago at all, as I'm sure all of you can relate to.
So how will I spend my remaining 30 years? Honestly, awake, and appreciative of the life I have NOW. No human can know if god really exists at all. No human can truly know if anything happens after death, or if it is really just the end. No one has ever known these answers.
We as humans are simply animals with big brains that happen to be aware of the fact that we will die. Other animals do not know this, or are not consciously aware of this fact. Sure all animals have a life instinct to keep living, they eat, the flee from danger etc....but we as humans are apparently the only ones who can see in our minds into the future and know that our eventual deaths await us, and thus we as a species have created the idea of "God", something/someone higher than us who has all the answers (that we don't have) and who will "save" us from death. From an evolutionary perspective this is a very easy thing to understand. We NEEDED this idea to keep us all from just giving up. After all, this realization can be absolutely crippling. I know it has been for me at times, and my "spiritual side" still wants to desperately cling to the idea that "Maybe!" something does happen after death.
As time has gone on I have gradually become more at peace with this idea, that god does not exist and that this life is all there is and that I will one day cease to exist. It has helped me to appreciate each day for what it is and to not be so concerned about the future, but has helped me be more in the now, more in the moment. Am I happier? Well again, happiness is a state of mind imo and I will say that yes, I am happier. The old JW fantasy was a great one. The ultimate fantasy in fact. Living forever in perfect health and youth surrounded by loved ones for all time in peace and security. But that is not reality. Reality is each day that we wake up and face our day. We can chose to live in a dream world of fantasy or we can live with the full knowledge that life is short and we have to make the most of each day.
It still a good thing for me to check in here from time to time, and I can empathize with all of you, my real brothers and sisters, and it's nice to be able to share my own thoughts now and then, and to try and help others and offer my own insights but I can see that need lessening as I grow and move farther away from the mind control of this cult. Eventually I won't even need to come here and it will no longer be a thought in my mind. I'm growing, and for that I'm grateful.
My only wish is that we could all, as a species, wake up. Not just us as former JW's have woken up to the fact that JW is a cult, but to the bigger picture that ALL religion is a cult, all religion is a delusion and worthless for us as a species. If we could all wake up to the fact that this life is what matters, that there is no God out there to save us, then maybe we could all put aside our prejudices and our hatred and make this world a better place. So much evil and so many atrocities have occurred because of the idea of God (and my God is the real God!). It's ruining our world, and it has from the beginning of human history. I think killing off the idea of God and waking up to "reality" will be the first step needed for all of us if we are going to continue on as a species on this planet.
We as humans are very powerful beings. We can and literally are ruining our planet, in more ways that I care to discuss at this time. And most of it stems from the one idea of God.
That to me is the bigger picture. God does not exist. We must save ourselves.
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Running ahead of Jehovah can be done with a slow walk.
by donny ina few days ago i read a post of someone who has recently awakened to what the watchtower bible and tract society really is.
in their comments, they stated that they had been accused of "running ahead of jehovah.".
"running ahead of jehovah" was a statement levied at me many times during my convoluted journey through that organization.
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Freeandclear
It's a cult. :)
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You wear tight pants and you will be in trouble
by wannaexit ini was reading in another forum, that a letter to the elders instructed them to speak to anybody who persists in wearing tight pants.
if changes don't happen then the instructions are to disqualify him from being a publisher but it won't be announced to the congregation.
i am am curious to see if this letter will surface.
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Freeandclear
Just another rule from the Modern Day Pharisees... -
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1st Year not attending RC
by BeautifulMind ini feel relieved to spend that time doing anything else but sitting in a stadium for 8 hours with only an hour break listening to the same talks i've been hearing since i was a child.
not to mention trying to keep my young boys quiet so i wouldnt get the evil looks in my section😂😂.
lot of walking was going on for us to try and tire them out.
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Freeandclear
I remember my last "convention" or whatever they call them nowadays. It was a one day thing, Circuit assembly??? Anyway, I hadn't been going for a good while due to guilt and just living my life, decided to get back in da troof and went. It was good for a bit, then I was falling asleep. Got up walked around, no one but my closest friends was talking to me because of my past I assume....marked? I had bought a new suit and shirt and felt uncomfortable as hell...you know how it is..... When the end finally came I was so happy. Went out to dinner with some friends afterwards (the best part of these days right?) After that I got DF'd and to be honest, it was the best thing that could have happened to me because once DF'd I felt free to really start doing some research and what I found freed me from the slavery to the WTS. Thank you JWfacts.com
Now when it's a Sunday like today I love the freedom of it. When I drive by the old Hall I just think to myself how glad I am not to be a part of it anymore. Yes I miss my friends but the relief of not having to go and feel guilty and no longer to follow all the silly rules (hey, I look so much better with a beard anyway! who knew?) is just incredible.