Thank you, Marvellous Marvin!
TerryWalstrom
JoinedPosts by TerryWalstrom
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DOES "ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD" really mean "Do not murder?"
by TerryWalstrom in20:28 - jesus' shed blood, thus related to murder.
with the words of augustine firmly in mind we now ask this important question:.
abstaining from blood(shed) preserves life!
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DOES "ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD" really mean "Do not murder?"
by TerryWalstrom in20:28 - jesus' shed blood, thus related to murder.
with the words of augustine firmly in mind we now ask this important question:.
abstaining from blood(shed) preserves life!
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TerryWalstrom
As a religious, historical, and logical approach to diffusing the pretzel logic of J-Dubs
in their holier-than-thou preachments, I personally think this argument might stop them in their tracks. At least they'd have to promise to research and return. In other words--you'll never see them again!
A good alternative to J-Dub blood policy--IF PRESENTED at the right moment of decision--gives a parent just cause to plunge ahead and permit the life-saving transfusion for the life of the child.
Just as the Sabbath was for man and not man for the Sabbath, logically the Laws of Noah are for man and not man for the Noahide Laws.
What does that mean?
Law is pro-LIFE in the sense that observing Law benefits, extends, enhances, and improves the lives of observers. Fanatics, on the other hand, get it backwards in a Pharisaical attempt to make obedience and martyrdom supercede life itself.
A fanatic doesn't want to LIVE FOR GOD; a fanatic wants to DIE for God.
A loving parent wants to SAVE THE LIFE of a beloved child, but a fanatic parent
wants to USE THE DEATH of a child to earn favor for divine brownie points!
The bargain of Christianity is: humanity doesn't have to be bound by Laws of God as the only resort to life.
Jesus Life=Life for humanity and death is out of the picture forever.
Otherwise, the Jewish ritual blood sacrifices would go on forever with temporary bloodshed = temporary forgiveness.
Binding Gentiles to ritual blood taboos makes no sense under Christian Freedom.
Binding Gentiles to a commonsense injunction against Murder makes all the sense in the world.
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Governing body deceiving members on purpose?
by wwjdnwt ini was born into this religion.
i was a jw for well over 30 years.
i did much research before i had internet, i compared bibles and prayed deeply to help me to know if this was the truth.
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TerryWalstrom
Ray Franz described the Watchtower leaders as "Captives" of a particular "concept" and that concept was that JW's have the TRUE religion.
That's enough to justify (in one's mind in a self-assuaging manner) most actions required to keep the "ark" afloat.
They are all mind-fucked. For most of us, we accepted and self-justified--did we not?
You do it until you cannot do it any longer.
I compare the mind-control to an addiction of substance abuse or alcoholism.
You simply have to hit rock bottom before you break free enough (self-preservation) to seek help or else you totally succumb.
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DOES "ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD" really mean "Do not murder?"
by TerryWalstrom in20:28 - jesus' shed blood, thus related to murder.
with the words of augustine firmly in mind we now ask this important question:.
abstaining from blood(shed) preserves life!
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TerryWalstrom
ACTS 15:19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[d] from things strangled, and from blood.
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Now, let's ask the following question. "Why is there no prohibition on murder?"
Oh, but you see--THERE IS!
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE NOAHIDE LAWS?
These are also known as the "Laws of the sons of Noah."
Please consider these and get them firmly in mind before you continue.
SEVEN NOACHIDE (or Noahide) LAWS
The seven Noachide laws, as traditionally enumerated are:
- Do Not Deny God
- Do Not Blaspheme God
- Do Not Murder
- Do Not Engage in Incestuous, Adulterous or Homosexual Relationships.
- Do Not Steal
- Do Not Eat of a Live Animal
- Establish Courts/Legal System to Ensure Law Obedience
What was the purpose of these Laws?
The Noachide Laws are seven laws considered by rabbinic tradition as the minimal moral duties required by the Bible on all men. While Jews are obligated to observe the whole Torah - 613 commandments, every non-Jew is considered a "son of the covenant of Noah" and he who accepts these obligations is considered a righteous person who is guaranteed a place in the world to come.
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In the Book of Acts, the Jerusalem Council offered a compromise to Paul (as the evangelist
to Gentiles) for a minimum number of prohibitions for Gentile Christians.
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While the Jews had been under the Moses Covenant of 613 ritual laws, those requirements had been nullified/ fulfilled by Jesus' death.
What remained was only Noah's son's Law for righteousness--as far as Jerusalem Council was concerned.
Are we prepared to say the Jerusalem Council DID NOT think Noahide Law #3-Do Not Murder
was important?
Is it not more logical, reasonable, and persuasive to view "and from blood" as MEANING the same thing as Do Not Murder, as in "and from BLOODSHED?
NOTORIOUS BLOOD FEUDS among tribes were a terrible problem in Jewish and Semitic society. These feuds have continued for centuries!
Entire "Cities of Refuge" became necessary to mark off a Sanctuary Zone where such retribution killings were off-limits.
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In the book of Acts, every mention of "blood," has reference to blood guilt or in some way connected to the shedding of blood, RATHER THAN the eating/consuming of it.
These are the occurrances of "blood" in Acts: 1:19; 2:19; 2:20; 5:28;15:20, 29; 18:6; 20:26, 28; 21:25; 22:20
As follows:
15:20, 29; 21:25 - The letter/directive from Jerusalem
1:19 - Judas' field of blood (from Judas' bloody death)
2:19, 20 - figurative, but drawing on the color of blood
5:28; 18:6; 20:26; - blood guilt
20:28 - Jesus' shed blood, thus related to murder
22:20 - Stephan's shed blood, thus related to murder
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WHAT DOES THIS REALLY MEAN?
( Acts 15) : "abstain from ... things strangled,"
The Noachide Law teaches us being careful to eat only meat from an animal that is fully dead is merciful, and this is by no means always the case in our factory society where slaughterhouses handle meat animals quickly and carelessly, sometimes only stunning them before cutting them up for sale. Care in this observance fosters all requirements for the love of nature and the preservation of the environment, and safeguards the passage of souls as manifested in the life and consumption of food animals until the ultimate destiny of the world._________________________
Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century, in Contra Faustum 32.13 noted:
"The observance of pouring out the blood which was enjoined in ancient times upon Noah himself after the deluge is thought by many to be what is meant in the Acts of the Apostles, where we read that the Gentiles were required to think that to abstain from blood means not to be polluted with the crime of murder ." (see #3 above)
With the words of Augustine firmly in mind we now ask this important question:
Unless the Jerusalem Council failed to prohibt murder (bloodshed) wouldn't "abstain from blood" cover that very important prohibition?
*From Wiki:
The Noahide Laws are regarded as the way through which non-Jews can have a direct and meaningful relationship with God or at least comply with the minimal requisites of civilization and of divine law.
A non-Jew who keeps the Noahide Law in all its details is said to attain the same spiritual and moral level as Israel's own (high priest) (Talmud, Bava Kamma 38a). Maimonides states that a Gentile who is precise in the observance of these Seven Noahide commandments is considered to be a Righteous Gentile and has earned a place in the world to come.___________________________
Jehovah's Witnesses want to interpret the words of the Jerusalem Council in a way that doesn't exactly fit the CONTEXT!
Acts 15:19-21
English Standard Version (ESV)
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations, Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
CONSIDER THE CONTEXT of purpose!
The Law preserves and improves life. Abstaining from Blood(shed) preserves Life! Abstaining from Blood(transfusion) has resulted in the DEATHs of observers of this prohibition.
Questions:
WHAT GOOD ARE DEAD KEEPERS OF A LAW to God or the world of mankind?
What is better a Living or a Dead worshipper?
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The Watchtower's "famous" scholars have yet to publish any instances of the Laws of the sons of Noah that I am aware of. If this is correct, we have to ask ourselves WHY a theological education should overlook this important piece of bible history!
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A MODERN FICTION: the lie which became a GOVERNING BODY
by TerryWalstrom insafe to say, if you walked up to any of the 8 million jehovah's witnesses on earth today and told them the.
governing body was a fiction, not only would they refuse to believe you--they'd consider you their immediate enemy!.
what if i told you jw's embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history?.
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TerryWalstrom
I'd love to be able to talk to somebody who has been in, and remained in, since the 1950's who could talk about all the changes. I know there is an infinite capacity to make excuses. That is a given. But, surely there is a cumulative sense that the world has turned under the feet of the older ones and nothing is really the same anymore except the name Jehovah's Witness.
How many shifts is too many?
How much awareness (on the inside) has worked its way into the consciousness of the rank and file concerning pedophile lawsuits?
I'd love to know.
Who I be surprised?
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A MODERN FICTION: the lie which became a GOVERNING BODY
by TerryWalstrom insafe to say, if you walked up to any of the 8 million jehovah's witnesses on earth today and told them the.
governing body was a fiction, not only would they refuse to believe you--they'd consider you their immediate enemy!.
what if i told you jw's embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history?.
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TerryWalstrom
For all these years, the justification for the Governing Body (FDS) being allowed to tell us what to think, how to act, and where we must spend our time all came down to BEING SELECTED by heaven and APPOINTED over ALL Jesus' belongings.
This explanation has been removed.
We can only wonder how the GB expects to justify the 100+ years of meddling abuse!
On what demonstrable authority do they seek such control?
As far as I can see, it rests on false pretense and the gullible willingness of 8 million dopey members.
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LEFTOVERS and STOLEN LIGHT (An historical look at Watchtower laziness and misadventure)
by TerryWalstrom inshould the chosen mouthpiece (gb) be a voice or merely an imitative echo?.
is new light original (because it is coming direct from jehovah) or is it leftover from the minds of men?.
watchtower magazine failed to release new light first, before any other religious person or body.
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TerryWalstrom
Well, didn't Prometheus do that very thing? :)
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A MODERN FICTION: the lie which became a GOVERNING BODY
by TerryWalstrom insafe to say, if you walked up to any of the 8 million jehovah's witnesses on earth today and told them the.
governing body was a fiction, not only would they refuse to believe you--they'd consider you their immediate enemy!.
what if i told you jw's embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history?.
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TerryWalstrom
Thanks Blondie, believe it or not, I sat down to write this at about ten in the morning and about eight hours later I was still knee-deep. I was initially going to ratchet down to a microscopic level of inspection. I'm glad I stopped when I did. Very hard to get people to read a looooooooong article on the best of days.
I remember when I suddenly realized the whole idea of governing body in Jerusalem was a figment of the imagination. I was stunned. Maybe I still am :)
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DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?
by TerryWalstrom inbased on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.
the bible-believers effect.
those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.
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TerryWalstrom
I struggle with the automatic status of "good person" accorded to a profession of faith.
What we hold to be true inside our widdle bwain is often at odds with reality. How many Mafia
members were devout in their Catholicism?
How many despicable millionaires have given lavishly to charity?
What makes us BAD is not what we believe--it is what we are willing to do and willing to accept from others
as necessary which tells the tale.
It seems to me, Faith is no guarantee of justice, kindness or benevolence any more than anti-theistic conviction is a guarantor of depravity.
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A MODERN FICTION: the lie which became a GOVERNING BODY
by TerryWalstrom insafe to say, if you walked up to any of the 8 million jehovah's witnesses on earth today and told them the.
governing body was a fiction, not only would they refuse to believe you--they'd consider you their immediate enemy!.
what if i told you jw's embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history?.
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TerryWalstrom
I often face the quandary of whether or not more blame rests with those who chose to believe
what the GB/ FDS coughs up out of their imagination--or--just lay all the blame on the febrile brains
of the mad folk who run the whole operation.
"Captives" of their own concepts, for sure.
But, to lie about what they teach and why is a strong indication of total depravity.
I don't know if Russell was a sociopath. I do think Rutherford was. Knorr seems to me like a simple, uneducated bureaucrat, out of his depth and totally reliant on Freddy Franz, whom he must have believed was a genius.
When the backroom boys began tearing it all apart and refitting the parts--I can't understand why Franz didn't threaten to unplug from his oracular catbird seat rather than submit to the demands for an "enlarged" understanding of leadership. My guess is, he was given a promise and full assurance that he would be the only candidate for President in the event of Knorr's health deterioration.