Posts by TerryWalstrom

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TerryWalstrom

Phizzy 3 hours ago

Sorry to be obtuse, but exactly what are the G.B basing their claim of authority on ?

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1, Maria Russell thought up a new way to authorize the work of her husband, C.T. Russell and make him part of a prophetic fulfillment of scripture by offering the "faithful and wise servant" parable as a prophecy and doctrine.

2. J.F.Rutherford transferred this (now) Doctrine to himself as a kind of Apostolic Succession. He further enlarged / defined the "powers" granted to him by virtue of holding this prophetic title (FDS). The Judge said being the FDS conferred all power over Jehovah's organization. He had this voted on and guess who was granted the status of FDS with superpowers? It was claimed at the time (now revoked) Jesus had inspected the WTorg and handed everything over.

3. Nathan Knorr+ Fred Franz tag-teamed the FDS slot after squeezing out non-anointed Hayden Covington (Rutherford's choice as his successor). Knorr and Franz created a hierarchy and called it a Theocracy deriving authority cracy directly from the Theos (Jehovah).

4. Knorr and Franz screwed the pooch with false 1975 fiasco and the leadership of the Watchtower Society was wrested away by the legal department (seeing in advance a certainty of failure) to protect Watchtower assets from lawsuits. This was only possible because Knorr had changed the need for a unanimous vote into a 2/3 majority vote.

5. The Governing Body is split off from the legal / corporate running of the Org.**

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In the year 2000, Watchtower Society formed three new non-profit corporations to run the Society's operations in the United States.
These corporations are:

The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses - coordinate all service (i.e., proselytic) activities, including door-to-door proselytism, circuit and district conventions, etc.
The Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses - coordinate the activities of those involved in full-time service, including pioneers, missionaries, and circuit and district overseers.
Kingdom Support Services, Inc. - control construction of all new Kingdom Halls and other facilities, and hold the titles to all Society-owned vehicles.
By creating a larger number of non-profit corporations, the Watchtower Society can - should it face such a situation in the future - move its asset to a corporation that is not currently fighting a lawsuit or under governmental judgment, thus making it more difficult for complainants to collect on judgments against the Society.
This particular strategy was utilized by the Church of Scientology when a judgment for $2.5 million was rendered against it in 1986. In 1997 the plaintiffs won an amended judgment in which they "proved to the Court's satisfaction that the Church of Scientology had conducted a pattern of systematically shuffling their assets between various Church owned or affiliated corporate entities to avoid payment"

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**
Furthermore, while the Governing Body no longer serves on the Board, they still control who is selected for the Board. Not only do they influence the selection of candidates for election to the Board, but they also select the voting members of the Watchtower Society corporation (up to 500 individuals) who vote upon the candidates. Therefore, while the Governing Body no longer serves on the Board, they oversee and coordinate the entire process of determining who is selected for the Board of Directors. They will perform a similar function in the selection of directors for the subsidiary corporations.
Second, it is important to remember that the Board of Directors is only involved with the business activities of the Society; all doctrine is still formulated by the Governing Body. Therefore, unless the Board of Directors stages some form of a coup in Brooklyn (which, even if such an event were to occur, would be unlikely to receive the support of rank-and-file Jehovah's Witnesses), the Board is still subject to the Governing Body. The Governing Body can still change (or refuse to change) doctrine, thereby defining the parameters within which the Board of Directors must work.

(see in depth: http://www.watchman.org/articles/jehovahs-witnesses/jehovahs-witnesses-reorganize-the-watchtower-society/)

22

Best of Topics

by Simon in

jw
best-of

some people had a penchant for posting their topics directly into the "best of topics" area.

it seemed more than a little arrogant to me that some imagined their every utterance was immediately a greatest hit but maybe people weren't clear on what that area was intended for .... from now on you won't be able to start new topics there.

if anyone wants to submit a topic to be added there (perhaps an index to a curated list of other topics by a user or on a certain subject / theme) then just start one in "suggestions" and pm me and, if it is suitable, then i'll move it into there.. existing topics posted there recently have been moved to more appropriate areas..

TerryWalstrom

We need a BEST TEXAN category.

I'm just sayin'

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TerryWalstrom

The Russel photo awaiting rapture on Olive tree in Jerusalem was taken on 24.april 1910 in palestine not on 1. Oct. 1914 (end of genitle times) Why they awaited the rapture to take place before 1914?

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THE TEXT itself explains the answer to your question:

The claim is being made that Charles Taze Russell took his followers to the Mount of Olives to await the rapture that didn’t happen.

Of course, Russell certainly did not take the thousands of Bible Students worldwide to the Mount of Olives at any time, nor do I know any reason that Russell would have for going to the Mount of Olives to wait “for an entrance into heaven”.

Bible Students In Palstine, April 1910

Some are using the above picture taken in Palestine in April 1910 with the claim that some of the Bible Students went there to wait for the rapture. The picture appears the September 1, 1910 issue of the Watch Tower.

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TerryWalstrom

roblemaddict 25 hours ago

Great research. Although getting a JW to believe M Russell came up with the faithful and wise servant trick might be a stretch.
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In 1895, Russell's wife Maria claimed that Russell himself was the figure referred to in the parable at Matthew 24:45-47, though Russell initially declined to accept the personal application of the title, suggesting that it should apply to the Watch Tower rather than its editor.
Watch Tower, July 15, 1906, Watch Tower Reprints, page 3811, As Retrieved 2009-09-23, page 215.

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Watch Tower, July 15, 1906, Watch Tower Reprints, page 3811, As Retrieved 2009-09-23, page 215.

62

NAILING DOWN the fraud of John 1:1 by demonstration

by TerryWalstrom in

call me crazy, but i love to watch seminary classes when sharp teachers are in charge of the instruction.. in the following video, the teacher really nails jehovah's witnesses on john 1:1 with utter simplicity.. begin at 1 hour and 20 minutes in.. i've never seen or heard of this before.. .

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_5qkj7tmbg.

TerryWalstrom

William Miller was a Baptist farmer and war hero who sat down as an unschooled, non-academic, amateur sleuth and concocted 2 years worth of "proof positive" indicating the arrival of Jesus Christ in 1843.

Well, sure he was WRONG!

But instead of William Miller's extreme failure (and false prophecy) becoming a cautionary tale for C.T.Russell--it had the opposite effect. He was like the Jim Carrey character in Dumb and Dumber who takes "1 in a Million against him as a positive indication of opportunity FOR him"--Russell went down the same amateur path of self-teaching and we all know where that led!

The Doctrine of the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" is the product of amateur inquiry by Maria Russell and Wow! It became the central doctrine of authority for all the madmen who have led the Watchtower religion into the sewer for 130 years!

26

The Man Who Interviewed the Apostles

by TerryWalstrom in

meet papias.

if you had lived in the time of the living apostles of jesus would you have personally investigated stories about.

or, would you simply read whatever was written instead?.

TerryWalstrom

I'm sure the Writing Committee is familiar with the Early Church fathers and

the many writings on Heresy. However, when did we ever get an actual Watchtower article in this arena?

If there has been, I'd like to know about it and read it.

What becomes clear to the point of startling is the fact Early Christianity was a hotbed of human error, strong opinion, debate, skeptical inquiry and truculent discord.

J-Dubs pretend they have the "True" religion but don't recognize the process Early Christians went through of publicly CHALLENGING each other!

The myth of one accord is a most unfortunate fiction.

40

INTERVIEW: with an Elder

by TerryWalstrom in

elder: "i'm not sure i know what you mean by 'diversity.'.

elder: "well, it's not quite like that.

elder: "um.

TerryWalstrom

Clambake

In the first century when Jerusalem was sacked , any kind of centralized authority was destroyed yet the apostles kept on preaching. Today when you look at the church ( the entire body of Christ ) , the differences between denominations is really quite minor yet they keep preaching the same message. I think that is kind of interesting.

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JW's have no mechanism for an open airing of controversy because disagreement is seen as automatic rebellion, disharmony, and potential apostasy. Any doubt or skepticism is equated with a weakness of spirit.

The Early Christians had controversy when Paul had to face off with Peter and a public rebuke took place (about Gentiles). It was embarrassing, uncomfortable, and it demonstrates (because we can read about it) such controversy is permissible and necessary.

JW Elders are policemen. They have absolutely no training as counselors or psychologists or mediators--and yet--the assume and arrogate such skills for themselves.

The job of a JW is to become a sophisticated human version of poly parrot.
Birdseed goes in and comes out as bird shit.

In the Kingdom Hall, bullshit goes in and comes out the same.

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TerryWalstrom

Just to be succinct about the problem of the Governing Body's claim to authority :

No 1914 = no 1919 appointment = the G.B are self-appointed Charlatans.

Would any JW Apologist care to contradict this ?

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The Org has come out and declared the 1919 teaching to be cancelled because it is a not yet situation.

This amounts to admitting the source authority claimed was completely imaginary and premature.

As far as 1914 being cancelled, they've invested everything in this dry well and cannot bring themselves to admit how repeatedly wrong and illegitimate every single declaration has been.

Prediction: The Jehovah's Witness hierarchy will eventually give up 1914 and present it as an act of heroism and humility in doing so.

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TerryWalstrom

If you lay out all the teachings in chronological order, the only pattern detectable is that of chaotic restlessness--sort of like a mental patient changing drugs and doses.

Add to that, the firmness of conviction and of always being absolutely certain--also a trait of mental patients with delusions of grandeur.

Logic is invoked and abandoned as needed.

Discontinuity / instability led to protests which led to undue influence, threats, and authoritarian demands for loyalty to the Organization (i.e. whoever was in charge at the moment) above the Bible itself.

When J.F. Rutherford entered Bethel, he demanded everybody there sign an Oath of Loyalty to himself OR ELSE he would throw them out on the street!

The wrongness of viewing this religion as the Truth is quite clear--but only if you study the hitory of its operations.

42

DESTROYING the Governing Body’s claim of authority

by TerryWalstrom in

destroying the governing body’s claim of authority.

begin at the beginning.

what source authority did early christians have?.

TerryWalstrom

One church started by Jesus himself, 39,000 started by men.

hmm, which one should I join?

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1. We must assume, believe, and maintain a premise and never stray from that premise: the Bible is actually a divine communication and has not been substantially corrupted by human error.
2. We must think we will have some means of knowing truth when we find it (if we find it.)

3. Using human reasoning (regardless of our culture, training or I.Q.) and our Bible plus the supernatural intervention of God's miraculous Holy Spirit--the puzzle will be solved, the mystery penetrated and Truth will fall out in front of us to act upon.

Jehovah's Witnesses have assumed all of the above.

So has the rest of Christianity. Each branch, sect, division, denomination is a testimony to the fact NOBODY AGREES--yet, the source of the disagreement is profound enough to cause them to consider their fellow Christians "WRONG."