johnamos

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Posts by johnamos

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  19

  Manipulative language

  by Hendrixgrip in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

  the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

  periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

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  johnamos

  Smiddy – “The fact is most JW`s cant think or reason about scriptures, they have been conditioned to be mentally lazy about such things and leave it all up to the GB to tell them what to believe.”

  What you say is true but for PIMO JWs this is a way to speak to PIMI JWs. Being they do leave it up to the GB to tell them what to believe you have to stick with only what the WTS publications and Bibles say and only ask within the scope of “what should I believe/how should I understand this’ or “how do I explain this if I was ask such during a study/or my kids”, etc...

  Another example:

  [Isaiah’s Prophecy 1 – He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.]

  [10-1-11 WT - According to secular chronology, the Babylonians dominated the land of ancient Judah and Jerusalem for some 70 years, from about 609 B.C.E. until 539 B.C.E. when the capital city of Babylon was captured.]

  Is the Isaiah’s Prophecy book agreeing with secular chronology?

  Or

  [Jeremiah 25:12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

  [11-15-98 WT – We know that Jehovah is the Great Timekeeper, and we have confidence that he never fails to fulfill his purposes at his appointed time.]

  [8-1-81 WT- “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]

  Jeremiah verse 12 says Jehovah called Babylon to account when 70 years were fulfilled. The 81 WT says Jehovah called Babylon to account in 539.Does that mean 539 is the 70th year? I know that the WTS teaches that 537 is the 70th year, does that mean 539 is the 68th year of those 70 years. Did Jehovah call Babylon to account when 70 years were fulfilled or 68 years?
  
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  19

  Manipulative language

  by Hendrixgrip in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

  the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

  periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

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  johnamos

  Yes, the mindset of these individuals probably would give that as an answer to avoid saying that their beloved GB/WTS is wrong on at least one of them.

  But this one example can really show a lot to someone still in if they took the time to reason on it.

  The 51 WT is correctly applied based on the fact that the trumpets are blown in chronological order and that the WTS teaches that the 1,260 days/42-months associated with the 6th trumpet/2nd woe were from Oct 1914 - April 1918…meaning that the Scriptures show that the 3rd woe/7th trumpet occurs AFTER the 2nd woe/42-months have ended as the 51 WT emphasizes.

  The problem for them is that saying the 7th trumpet was blown in April 1918, breaks their connection of the 607-1914 nonsense.

  But if they say that the 02 WT is correct because it states that the 7th trumpet was blown in Oct 1914, then it would need to be pointed out that since the Scriptures show that the 3rd woe/7th trumpet occurs AFTER the 2nd woe/42-months have ended, then the 42-months could not have been from Oct 1914 - April 1918 but instead would have to had been from April 1911 – Oct 1914.

  So their problem would now be that they can’t point to anything that happen during April 1911 – Oct 1914 to say it fulfilled the 42-months of Rev 11:2,3, so then that would show that they can’t say the 7th trumpet blew in Oct 1914.
  
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  19

  Manipulative language

  by Hendrixgrip in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

  the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

  periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

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  johnamos

  Hendrixgrip - “We learned A last week, right? And we learned B this week, right? A and B seem to be in conflict with each other. Do you have any thoughts how I should explain this to the kids?”

  That reminds me of a current question that I am attempting to ask an active JW elder...

  [11 -1- 02 WT - In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled: [And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying:] “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”]

  [7-15-51 WT- At this eventful time the seventh angel blows his trumpet, that is, after the 1,260 days ended in 1918. Then it is that these wonders can come to pass. “And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven saying: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king for ever and ever.’(Revelation 11:15)]

  As you can see, Revelation 11:15 is cited in both and in the 02 WT it says it was fulfilled in 1914 but in the 51 WT it says it was fulfilled in 1918. Which of the two am I to believe?
  
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  31

  The downfall of the Governing Body

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

  i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

  yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

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  johnamos

  Ultimate Axiom - "I think they are downplaying the two witness rule in this situation."

  Maybe, but in either case this shows that they can make an exception to the two-witness rule if they choose to do so.

  That being said, this Gary Breaux moron is contradicting himself in saying that they will NEVER change their position on that matter.

  The article that I linked does show that there is a way to handle a matter without a second witness. And if that is done for the purpose of being able to freely remarry, how much more so should it be done for a abused person with no second witness.

  Especially with this to back that up… https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Deuteronomy+22%3A25-27

  
  
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  31

  The downfall of the Governing Body

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

  i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

  yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

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  johnamos

  It is sad that many here no longer believe in Jehovah or the Bible any longer. Just reading the following here on this thread such as:

  ‘Downfall of the Governing Body', ‘breaking down the walls'

  Should bring to your attention that that is what the book of Joel is all about. Also read Ezekiel 13:1-16.

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Ezekiel+13%3A1-16
  
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  31

  The downfall of the Governing Body

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

  i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

  yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

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  johnamos

  Ultimate Axiom - the two witness rule only applies if there is no confession, so in your first example it doesn't apply, unless of course he denies it later.

  Not sure what you are saying? Did you read the article I linked?

  In this example the wife knows the husband cheated on her and she wants a divorce but also she wants to be scripturally free to remarry. The wife is telling the elders that the husband admitted it to her and she believes he did cheat on her. There are no witnesses to the husband cheating on her or to him admitting it to her. The elders tell her to write a letter stating that he admitted it to her and they will leave the matter between her and Jehovah...meaning that even thou there is no second witness, they will assume that she is being truthful when saying she knows the husband cheated on her and that Jehovah will know too, so therefore she is free to remarry.
  
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  31

  The downfall of the Governing Body

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

  i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

  yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

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  johnamos

  Hey Gary Breaux,

  In regards to their applying the two-witness rule the following article shows that if a husband admitted to his wife that he was with another woman (sexually), that the wife could write a letter stating that and she could be free to remarry if she chose to get a divorce.

  The article is not downplaying the Bible counsel in regards to the two-witness rule; it is merely stating what should be done in a case when an act as taken place but there is no second (human) witness. It is saying that the sister (wife) is one witness and if she is telling the truth then Jehovah can be the second witness so they will just take her at her word and leave it between her and Jehovah.

  So someone who has been sexually abused should not have to have the second (human) witness if they too wrote a letter documenting that they were abused by so and so.

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977729

  
  
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  13

  Capitalizing names

  by john.prestor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just a random thought here but does anyone else notice than when the name "elder" or "circuit overseer" appears in the organization's magazines and books they're always lower case even though they're proper nouns and should be elder and circuit overseer... but branch committee member, governing body helper, governing body member, they get to be capitalized.

  another subtle indication of how the governing body and other high-ranking elites see themselves, i think.

  .

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  johnamos

  I have noticed that when they refer to the 'first century' governing body they put the g and b in lower case but when referring to 'modern day' Governing Body they capitalize the G and B.
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  45

  Jehovah's Witnesses... Who sent the Star of Bethlehem?

  by JW Answers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jehovah's witnesses... who sent the star of bethlehem?.

  the watchtower teach their followers that the star of bethlehem was sent by non other than satan... however as we take a look at the scriptures by comparing spiritual things with spiritual we begin to see that the star of bethlehem was not sent by satan, but used for the glory of god.a seasonal message to end the year.. watch now here :.

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  johnamos

  JW Answers

  Quote - The scriptures define the Star being sent by God by way of guiding the Wise men. – End quote

  Why do you call them ‘Wise men’?

  Matthew 2:7 Then Herod called the Magi (3097) secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.

  3097. magos

  Transliteration: magos
  Phonetic Spelling: (mag'-os)
  Definition: a Magian, an (Oriental) astrologer, by implication a magician
  Usage: a sorcerer, a magician, a wizard.

  [Deuteronomy 18:10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, a practicer of magic or anyone who looks for omens or a sorcerer, 11 or one who binds others with a spell or anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable things Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you. 13 You should prove yourself faultless with Jehovah your God.]

  
  

  Quote - When the wise men came to Jesus, they glorified Him, worshipped Him, and praised Him. This is not an act of Satan is it? – End quote

  [Matthew 4:8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”]

  [Luke 2:8 There were also in that same country shepherds living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks. 9 And suddenly Jehovah’s angel stood by them, and Jehovah’s glory gleamed around them, and they became very fearful. 10 But the angel said to them: “Have no fear, for, look! I am declaring to YOU good news of a great joy that all the people will have, 11 because there was born to YOU today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, in David’s city. 12 And this is a sign for YOU: YOU will find an infant bound in cloth bands and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there came to be with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God and saying: 14 “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.” 15 So when the angels had departed from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another: “Let us by all means go clear to Beth´le·hem and see this thing that has taken place, which Jehovah has made known to us.” 16 And they went with haste and found Mary as well as Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger. 17 When they saw it, they made known the saying that had been spoken to them concerning this young child. 18 And all that heard marveled over the things told them by the shepherds, 19 but Mary began to preserve all these sayings, drawing conclusions in her heart. 20 Then the shepherds went back, glorifying and praising God for all the things they heard and saw, just as these had been told them.]

  
  
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  25

  Jehovah's Witnesses and the Great Crowd

  by Meshech in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as jesus christ was preparing to go to his death, he encouraged his disciples with these words:.

  "in my father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, i would have told you.

  i go to prepare a place for you.

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  johnamos

  Quote - 'the word Trinity appears nowhere in the Bible', but neither is the phrase 'earthly hope' – end quote

  And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;

  And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

  “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

  For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing,

  saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. 18 But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”

  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”