Posts by johnamos

24

JW at a thrift store....

by Muddy Waters in

so i was recently in a thrift store, looking through some of the stuff there, when another aisle over, somebody sneezed.. (as far as i know, nobody lost a meatball.... 😅🙃 ...).

anyway, somebody sneezed.

and somebody immediately said, “bless you!”.

johnamos

Quote - in modern day times, it just sounds, well, polite! Friendly. Soothing, even. A little moment of kindness from a stranger – end quote

Quote - To me, its just courtesy, showing politeness or showing that you care. – end quote

Quote - the child showing courtesy – end quote

Saying ‘bless you’ after a sneeze is ridiculous!

Why is it so-called courtesy/politeness to say ‘bless you' after a sneeze but not said after someone burps or farts?

After someone burps or farts...they are viewed as rude/impolite and expected for them to say sorry/excuse me.

Why not say sorry/excuse me after a sneeze and say 'bless you' after a burp or fart?

All three are normal human/animal bodily functions that serve a purpose.

If anyone is willing to try to explain why a sneeze gets a ‘bless you’ and a burp and fart does not, I would love to hear it.

I don’t think you can without realizing that is based on superstition.

From my understanding it is not about demons entering or leaving ones body, instead it is that during a sneeze your soul/spirit is leaving your body and saying ‘bless you’ or ‘God bless you’ is to help your soul/spirit to remain in you.

Another is that during a sneeze your heart stops for a spit second and saying ‘bless you’ or ‘God bless you’ helps to ensure that it keeps beating afterward.

And yet another is that during the plague of AD 590, Pope Gregory I ordered unceasing prayer for divine intercession. Part of his command was that anyone sneezing be blessed immediately ("God bless you"), since sneezing was often the first sign that someone was falling ill with the plague."

Edit – LOL…during the time I was writing the above, TIKI posted. I had not seen that post until AFTER I finished writing mine and went to post it. :)

12

"The messiah" was to come from the "line of David" right??

by stuckinarut2 in

a huge realization hit me the other day while listening to a podcast that discussed the "lineage of jesus".. according to the bible, "the messiah" was to come through king davids lineage.

but, if you wade through the entire chapter of matthew that lists "son of ...son of...son of...etc", it becomes obvious that jesus did not come through davids line at all!.

in fact, that lineage lists jospeh (mary's husband) as being in davids line.

johnamos

Matthew’s account is Joseph’s lineage with Jacob listed as Joseph’s father and Luke's account is Mary's lineage with Heli (her father) listed as Joseph's father(in-law).

Matthew 1: 15 E·li´ud became father to El·e·a´zar; El·e·a´zar became father to Mat´than; Mat´than became father to Jacob; 16 Jacob became father to Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

Luke 3:23 Furthermore, Jesus himself, when he commenced his work, was about thirty years old, being the son, as the opinion was, of Joseph, son of He´li,

31

Part II: it's time

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

earlier i posted about the call from close family about that the end is expected in very short time.. today i had the opportunity to speak in person.. this is what is told to me:.

- the gb speaks to us personality through broadcasting;.

- the annual meeting was a very clear message from the gb;.

johnamos

Quote- Come back in 5 years, show them the paper, and ask "what happened? I thought it was imminent." –end quote

[9-15-88 WT – Why, learning that Gog’s attack is imminent but that Jehovah will rescue His people ought to increase our faith and make us rejoice that such events will result in sanctifying God’s long-profaned name!—Ezekiel 39:1-29.]

The WTS says that Gog attack is the same of the KOTN attack...

[5-15-15 WT - The Bible mentions the attack by ‘Gog of Magog,’ the attack by “the king of the north,” and the attack by “the kings of the earth.” (Ezekiel 38:2, 10-13; Daniel 11:40, 44, 45; Revelation 17:14; 19:19) Are these different attacks? That is not likely. It seems that the Bible is using different names to describe the same attack.]

58

THIS IS IT Tony Morris Identifies King of Norht

by scotoma in

jw
friends

this is the announcement we have heard “about” but now it has been released to the whole world.

its in the 2nd of a three part serries about the jw annual meeting (oct 2018).

to minute 52. .

johnamos

[Daniel 11: 36 “And the king (KOTN) will actually do according to his own will, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak marvelous things. And he will certainly prove successful until the denunciation will have come to a finish; because the thing decided upon must be done…45 And he will plant his palatial tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will have to come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.]

Tony talks about Russia being the KOTN, but he made no mention of Gog. The attack from Gog is something that JWs expect to come upon them in the near future.

[11-15-13 WT – In the near future, Jehovah’s apparently vulnerable people will come under attack from the modern-day “Assyrian,” whose intent will be to wipe them out. The Scriptures refer to that attack as well as the attack of ‘Gog of Magog,’ the attack of “the king of the north,” and the attack of “the kings of the earth.” (Ezek. 38:2, 10-13; Dan. 11:40, 44, 45; Rev. 17:14; 19:19) Do these represent separate attacks? Not necessarily. The Bible could be referring to the same attack under different names.]

As can be seen it is said that the attack from Gog is the same as the KOTN. Okay, hold that thought.

Also at some point in the near future JWs expect the UN to get authority and enter the holy place.

[Revelation Climax – As John soon learns, the time will come when the UN will act with considerable authority. Then it, in its turn, “goes off into destruction.”]

[6-15-12 WT – Any power it (U.N.) has comes from its member nations, especially from its key backer, the Anglo-American World Power. (Rev. 17:10, 11) But it does receive authority to act as a king to carry out a specific task, one that triggers a chain of events that will change history.]

[5-1-99 WT - Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” (U.N.) made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future.]

Tony has his listeners read Rev 17:15-17. As can be seen verse 17 states that the ten kings give their power and authority to the wild beast (U.N.). That goes along with what they said in the 6-15-12 WT and Revelation 17:13.

[Revelation 17: 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast…17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.]

At the point that the wild beast (U.N.) gets that power and authority it is then at that time considered to be the 8th and final king.

[Revelation 17:11 And the wild beast…it is also itself an eighth king…and it goes off into destruction.]

[1-15-00 WT – Here the apostle John mentions seven kings, representing seven world powers—Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American dual world power. He also sees “an eighth king” that “springs from the seven.” This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations. John says that this eighth king “goes off into destruction,” after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.]

Another player that still has to come on scene it the KFIC. He is said to come about the same way the 8th king (U.N.) does, which should tell you that they are one and the same.

[Daniel 8:23 “And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings. 24 And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power. And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will actually bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. 25 And according to his insight he will also certainly cause deception to succeed in his hand. And in his heart he will put on great airs, and during a freedom from care he will bring many to ruin. And against the Prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken.]

As can be seen the KFIC brings to ruin the holy ones.

Another player said to be given authority as does the wild beast/8th king (U.N.) and is also said to conquer the holy ones as does the KFIC, is the wild beast from Rev chapter 13.

[Revelation 13:5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name and his residence, even those residing in heaven. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation…19: 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.]

Oh but wait, there is still another…

[2 Thessalonians 2:4 He (MOL) is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god…8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.]

As can be seen the MOL, KOTN, KFIC, wild beast ch. 13, wild beast/8th king (as well as Gog) all come to their end by Jesus at Armageddon. Which means they are all on hand at that time, which means they are not all separate entities but all one in the same.

So Tony, are the ten kings going to give their power and authority to the U.N. or to Russian?

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

johnamos

Smiddy – “The fact is most JW`s cant think or reason about scriptures, they have been conditioned to be mentally lazy about such things and leave it all up to the GB to tell them what to believe.”

What you say is true but for PIMO JWs this is a way to speak to PIMI JWs. Being they do leave it up to the GB to tell them what to believe you have to stick with only what the WTS publications and Bibles say and only ask within the scope of “what should I believe/how should I understand this’ or “how do I explain this if I was ask such during a study/or my kids”, etc...

Another example:

[Isaiah’s Prophecy 1 – He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.]

[10-1-11 WT - According to secular chronology, the Babylonians dominated the land of ancient Judah and Jerusalem for some 70 years, from about 609 B.C.E. until 539 B.C.E. when the capital city of Babylon was captured.]

Is the Isaiah’s Prophecy book agreeing with secular chronology?

Or

[Jeremiah 25:12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah,]

[11-15-98 WT – We know that Jehovah is the Great Timekeeper, and we have confidence that he never fails to fulfill his purposes at his appointed time.]

[8-1-81 WT- “The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.”]

Jeremiah verse 12 says Jehovah called Babylon to account when 70 years were fulfilled. The 81 WT says Jehovah called Babylon to account in 539.Does that mean 539 is the 70th year? I know that the WTS teaches that 537 is the 70th year, does that mean 539 is the 68th year of those 70 years. Did Jehovah call Babylon to account when 70 years were fulfilled or 68 years?

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

johnamos

Yes, the mindset of these individuals probably would give that as an answer to avoid saying that their beloved GB/WTS is wrong on at least one of them.

But this one example can really show a lot to someone still in if they took the time to reason on it.

The 51 WT is correctly applied based on the fact that the trumpets are blown in chronological order and that the WTS teaches that the 1,260 days/42-months associated with the 6th trumpet/2nd woe were from Oct 1914 - April 1918…meaning that the Scriptures show that the 3rd woe/7th trumpet occurs AFTER the 2nd woe/42-months have ended as the 51 WT emphasizes.

The problem for them is that saying the 7th trumpet was blown in April 1918, breaks their connection of the 607-1914 nonsense.

But if they say that the 02 WT is correct because it states that the 7th trumpet was blown in Oct 1914, then it would need to be pointed out that since the Scriptures show that the 3rd woe/7th trumpet occurs AFTER the 2nd woe/42-months have ended, then the 42-months could not have been from Oct 1914 - April 1918 but instead would have to had been from April 1911 – Oct 1914.

So their problem would now be that they can’t point to anything that happen during April 1911 – Oct 1914 to say it fulfilled the 42-months of Rev 11:2,3, so then that would show that they can’t say the 7th trumpet blew in Oct 1914.

19

Manipulative language

by Hendrixgrip in

someone recently included the phrase from a talk, “cherished errors”, which made me think about something i wanted to get off my chest.

the societies use of manipulative language has been discussed on this site many time and i hope this adds to the ammunition to fight back against them.

periodically , i’ll run into someone and they’ll say “hendrixgrip, why don’t you come to the meetings anymore.” i’ll give them some not too specific reason like, “i’m struggling with the overlapping doctrine”.

johnamos

Hendrixgrip - “We learned A last week, right? And we learned B this week, right? A and B seem to be in conflict with each other. Do you have any thoughts how I should explain this to the kids?”

That reminds me of a current question that I am attempting to ask an active JW elder...

[11 -1- 02 WT - In 1914 the prophetic words of Revelation 11:15 were fulfilled: [And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying:] “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”]

[7-15-51 WT- At this eventful time the seventh angel blows his trumpet, that is, after the 1,260 days ended in 1918. Then it is that these wonders can come to pass. “And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven saying: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king for ever and ever.’(Revelation 11:15)]

As you can see, Revelation 11:15 is cited in both and in the 02 WT it says it was fulfilled in 1914 but in the 51 WT it says it was fulfilled in 1918. Which of the two am I to believe?

31

The downfall of the Governing Body

by john.prestor in

in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

johnamos

Ultimate Axiom - "I think they are downplaying the two witness rule in this situation."

Maybe, but in either case this shows that they can make an exception to the two-witness rule if they choose to do so.

That being said, this Gary Breaux moron is contradicting himself in saying that they will NEVER change their position on that matter.

The article that I linked does show that there is a way to handle a matter without a second witness. And if that is done for the purpose of being able to freely remarry, how much more so should it be done for a abused person with no second witness.

Especially with this to back that up… https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Deuteronomy+22%3A25-27

31

The downfall of the Governing Body

by john.prestor in

in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

johnamos

It is sad that many here no longer believe in Jehovah or the Bible any longer. Just reading the following here on this thread such as:

‘Downfall of the Governing Body', ‘breaking down the walls'

Should bring to your attention that that is what the book of Joel is all about. Also read Ezekiel 13:1-16.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=Ezekiel+13%3A1-16

31

The downfall of the Governing Body

by john.prestor in

in a book i read a while back by the sociologist randall collins he says truly powerful people don't get angry because they get what they want in other ways, and he shows a picture of two runners where the one who's losing looks at the girl that passes her rather than ahead at the finish line, guess she doesn't wanna win the race after all.

i want to apply these to the governing body and their actions, the pattern of their actions, in printing all the hateful rhetoric against people like us and why l'm pretty sure, pretty damn confident in fact, it's all downhill from here... thanks to them and them alone.. the moment you let somebody get in your head and let them stay there they beat you, they win, they establish power, we got in their heads, they know we present a threat to them, we won't shut up, we're more brazen than we used to be, we're in the news, we're on tv, we're online we're at conventions we're in the kingdom halls, hell we're just about everywhere.

yeah, we don't have this completely down yet, sometimes we come on too strong or do something stupid, and i'm pointing the finger at myself here too, but for the most part we know how to fight this battle: we drag them into the light when they wanna hide in the dark like jackals lurking in the woods sneaking up on weak and wounded deer.

johnamos

Ultimate Axiom - the two witness rule only applies if there is no confession, so in your first example it doesn't apply, unless of course he denies it later.

Not sure what you are saying? Did you read the article I linked?

In this example the wife knows the husband cheated on her and she wants a divorce but also she wants to be scripturally free to remarry. The wife is telling the elders that the husband admitted it to her and she believes he did cheat on her. There are no witnesses to the husband cheating on her or to him admitting it to her. The elders tell her to write a letter stating that he admitted it to her and they will leave the matter between her and Jehovah...meaning that even thou there is no second witness, they will assume that she is being truthful when saying she knows the husband cheated on her and that Jehovah will know too, so therefore she is free to remarry.