i just watched this lovely lady's heartfelt message to the governing body.
i hope that the men she named and all lurkers who have some clout at bethel listen to this message and stop this cruel and divisive shunning policy that has ruined so many family's around the world.
this is just one voice of many many people who feel this way about your (governing body) destructive policy.
Very sad to hear her story.
Like Hitler who never realized he was
losing the battle (because he used to kill messenger that comes with unpleasant
news), this organization never realizes that they do not benefit in any way by
shunning. Those who have gone through shunning are only hardening their stand
not to return to the org.
we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.
nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.
one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.
Crazyguy, I agree with you. Israelites were equally fond of varieties as seen in their very names Isaiah, Ezekiel, Abijah, Jehobam ...
we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.
nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.
one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.
Interestingly, Bible writers themselves are confused.
1) Abraham says God's name is "eternal" (Gen 21:33)
2) Isaiah says His name is "holy" (57:15)
3) God Himself says His name is "I AM" (Ex 3:13, 14)
4) JWs say His name is "He causes to become"
5) Jesus simply says He has a name (He prayed: "let your name be sanctified"), yet did not say what the name is.
we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.
nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.
one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.
cold steel,
Your explanation is good; yet the problem remains because question is why should God choose a name the meaning of which no one is sure? Name should be self-explanatory, or else it is not a name.
well new to me anyway, i'm sure someone smarter than me has thought of this before.
the next time i get asked the perennial (and tired old) question: “but you do believe that the gb are god’s channel of communication, the organisation he is using, don’t you?” or some variation thereof, i am going to reply with two verses and reason as follows:.
the matter to be established: have the gb of jehovah’s witnesses received divine appointment to act as god’s representatives and channel of communication on earth?.
GB’s claim actually does not make them unique; in fact this is what rest of the religions do. The one thing they have in common is a super-naturalistic appeal—here in this case direct appointment from Master. When they find something appealing in Science, they will pick up that also, means very often scientific ideas are stolen from their contexts and built into supernatural ideas, claiming the latter as scientific fact (from quantum mysticism… to magnetic therapy, homeopathy, phrenology and so on--all ideas that borrow their credibility from the legitimacy of scientific language). They have been very successful at appealing to popular memes in society, usurping them in order to gain a presence.
well new to me anyway, i'm sure someone smarter than me has thought of this before.
the next time i get asked the perennial (and tired old) question: “but you do believe that the gb are god’s channel of communication, the organisation he is using, don’t you?” or some variation thereof, i am going to reply with two verses and reason as follows:.
the matter to be established: have the gb of jehovah’s witnesses received divine appointment to act as god’s representatives and channel of communication on earth?.
doubtfull1799, I never thought two witness clause could be applied to GB claim. Very good!
we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.
nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.
one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.
Hi tor1500,
I agree with you that people got the meaning of God differently, and JWs want to be different among them. Vatican had no problem with the meaning of God's name. In September 2008 they embraced evolution, adding its voice against the specter of intelligent design. A few days ago, it embraced science once again when Pope Benedict XVI, like his predecessor, paid tribute to Galileo Galilei, once branded as a heretic by the Catholic Church for telling the truth.
we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.
nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.
one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.
We have been taught that the name Jehovah means “He causes to become.” It is interpreted that He causes Himself to become whatever needed to accomplish His will—as happened in the case Israelites to whom He “caused Himself to become” a Savior leading them from slavery in Egypt.
But there is a problem with this definition. Nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself. One may say: “I helped him,” (but he won’t say: “I caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “Causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature. On the contrary, in God all the good qualities would come naturally without any effort, or would flow freely; hence question of “causing Himself to become something” does not arise in the case of God.
That means “causing to become” relates to whatever that becomes outside of God. In other words, everything that has “become” was ‘caused to become’ so by God.
1) When we say all the different species evolved from simple life forms, it would mean “He caused” them to evolve by adding the massive amounts of new information required on its way.
2) He ‘caused many to become’ apostates’ which we know is not the case with us all because we simply used our freewill.
If meaning of God’s name is so ambiguous that it can take the responsibility of even those who become apostate, then questions would arise:
How can His name be profaned?
How can people pray that His name be sanctified?
Who will ‘cause His name to become’ sanctified again?
Is this ambiguous name really the invention of some humans?
hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
waton, Your quote is counterproductive [Gen. 2:5,6: "-- God had not made it rain upon the ground -- but a mist would go up from the Earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground. 7: and God formed man --"]
God formed man out of dust … and at death he would “return to dust” (Gen 3:19) which is contradicted by Ecclesiastes 12:7 where we read “his spirit returns to God.” It means Bible is a collaborative project, where one or few philosophers wrote an initial outline and then various people worked on it changing it and tweaking it. Hence you have things such as Lot’s wife being given capital punishment for just looking back, and Peter escaping punishment for such fatal mistake of disowning the son of man three time.
we have heard: “don’t share food with apostate.” what about sharing the air we all breathe in?
whether apostate or believer, both breathe in the same air (which is more important than food)!.
today i put this question to the couple who came to invite me for the memorial.
In fact we benefit from their irrational behavior. They are living in a protected environment which leave them emotionally stunted. Living in such an atmosphere is different from the real world. Our thoughts and emotions should mirror the world. Life is wonderful from time to time, but it's also tragic at times. If they have only been accustomed to being allowed to have the artificial JW-life style, then sudden adverse realities can strike them even more intensely when they happen.
Living with apostate burdens make me emotionally matured—something JWs will never experience.
