Bible itself says "test everything. Hold on to what is good (kalos, what is inherently good and logical)".--1 Thessalonians 5:21. It primarily applies to Bible itself. Hence when we find things that are not logical in the Bible, we need to ignore them.
Posts by venus
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16Creation account is the creation of Moses
by venus inthe word `intelligence' [from inter, “between” + legere, “ to read”] would mean ‘discern things as though reading in between the lines.
now read in between the lines of what moses wrote; his favored and frequent statement is this: ‘obedience to god means blessings, and disobedience means maledictions.’ (deut 28:1-68; 30:15-18) let us try to discern his motive behind this statement.. .
when moses wanted to present 10 commandments and other laws, he naturally wanted to prepare the israelites with a mind-set that ‘we must obey god, otherwise it is problem for us.’ the best way for this was to modify a well-known story of fall from other cultures.
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Creation account is the creation of Moses
by venus inthe word `intelligence' [from inter, “between” + legere, “ to read”] would mean ‘discern things as though reading in between the lines.
now read in between the lines of what moses wrote; his favored and frequent statement is this: ‘obedience to god means blessings, and disobedience means maledictions.’ (deut 28:1-68; 30:15-18) let us try to discern his motive behind this statement.. .
when moses wanted to present 10 commandments and other laws, he naturally wanted to prepare the israelites with a mind-set that ‘we must obey god, otherwise it is problem for us.’ the best way for this was to modify a well-known story of fall from other cultures.
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venus
The word `intelligence' [from inter, “between” + legere, “ to read”] would mean ‘discern things as though reading in between the lines. Now read in between the lines of what Moses wrote; his favored and frequent statement is this: ‘Obedience to God means blessings, and disobedience means maledictions.’ (Deut 28:1-68; 30:15-18) Let us try to discern his motive behind this statement.
When Moses wanted to present 10 commandments and other laws, he naturally wanted to prepare the Israelites with a mind-set that ‘We must obey God, otherwise it is problem for us.’ The best way for this was to modify a well-known story of Fall from other cultures. This seems to be the origin of creation account and the subsequent story of “tree of good and bad” which shows suffering was the result of disobedience to God.
Moses wanted to show his people are special because God chose them as His own giving them The Law, and to convey: “You do well if you obey the Law.” That’s all what Moses did! That means story of “tree of good and bad” has no significance to the humanity, and God and Satan are nowhere in the picture as the creation account is the creation of Moses who wrote for his own people, not to the world. Interestingly, Jesus himself testifies that Moses was whimsical. (Mathew 19:7, 8) Moses did everything to project one nation as God’s chosen one—something that God would not do because He simply cannot be partial (Deut 10:17), and also exalting one nation over the others is spiritual ego which is more harmful than material ego (root of all problems) seen in individuals.
If creation account is creation of Moses, then how did universe come about? To me this question looks very simple. If one reads in between the lines of the famous question: “What came first chicken or egg?” he would get the answer as “none,” it is a chain without any beginning! We are conditioned to think in term of a beginning. But our experience is that nothing happens without something preceding to it, and it is ad infinitum. God does not create anything. This “creation” is a natural manifestation of something inherent in the nature and God. He does not deliberately engage in any action to bring “creation” into existence, it just happens. So God is not directly responsible for “creation” (just like a dreamer does not design the dream, nor does he control the dream, but it happens in a natural way).
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Human element seen in 10 commandments
by venus ini appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.
however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).
1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.
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venus
Hi Anders Andersen,
That is true. Hamurabi's laws (dating back to BCE 1754) were older than and superior to Moses' law. For example, woman could have gone for an easy divorce: "Law #142: "If a woman quarrel with her husband, and say: "You are not congenial to me," the reasons for her prejudice must be presented. If she is guiltless, and there is no fault on her part, but he leaves and neglects her, then no guilt attaches to this woman, she shall take her dowry and go back to her father's house."
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17
Good luck with that
by Lost his mind inwhat is the big deal when you say "good luck with that" or he just had bad luck?
i have never been a jw, but what is the problem with saying these things?
my husband was so mad, he went to bed and would not talk to me.
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venus
JWs associate luck with demonic worship, hence they do not use that expression. Demons really do not exist--for example Jews do not believe snake that spoke in the garden of Eden is Satan. In the temptation account involving Jesus, Satan is shown as somebody who believes the shape of earth is flat because he takes Jesus to the top of the mountain to show "all the kingdoms of the earth." Hence Bible too shows that Satan is symbolic of sin, not a real person. If Satan is real, he would have caused an accident where ever nuclear weapons are kept and would have already caused the destruction of the humanity. Hence modern history too shows that Satan is not real, hence his supposed supporters called demons too are not real.
Hence you can use the expression luck because luck exists. For a high-profile job opportunity, suppose two equally good people are finally short-listed, yet one only will be selected--that one is the lucky one.
Another example, my friend was to board a plane, but was prevented from doing so because of a spelling mistake found in his passport and other documents. But five minutes after take off, plane had a mid-air collision with another plane leaving no survivors. My friend's apparent bad luck turned out to be a real luck.
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Human element seen in 10 commandments
by venus ini appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.
however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).
1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.
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venus
Thank you Simon for that link: Some of the rewriting of Christopher Hitches are too good such as:
I: Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or color.
II: Do not ever use people as private property.
V: Do not condemn people for their inborn nature.
VI: Be aware that you too are an animal and dependent on the web of nature, and think and act accordingly.
VII: Do not imagine that you can escape judgment if you rob people with a false prospectus rather than with a knife.
X: Be willing to renounce any god or any religion if any holy commandments should contradict any of the above -
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Human element seen in 10 commandments
by venus ini appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.
however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).
1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.
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venus
scratchme1010,
My point is that one needs to accept from what appeals to his reason--not everything it says. What falls below the reason belongs to human thinking, hence to be treated accordingly.
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Human element seen in 10 commandments
by venus ini appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.
however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).
1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.
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venus
Witnesses explain the word “inspired” using the illustration of “a boat being drawn along by the wind.”
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Human element seen in 10 commandments
by venus ini appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.
however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).
1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.
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venus
Crazyguy & smiddy,
What human writers wanted to convey they conveyed through the mouth of God giving the impression that God was conveying—may be to get more acceptance, hence we have all these discrepancies and mistakes.
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5
Happy are those concious of their spiritual need?
by NikL inthat was the title of the public talk given by the co today.
it's a statement i've heard over the years many many times.it's based on the nwt translation of matthew 5:3i always use a different version of the bible when i follow the scriptures because it lets me get a better view of the scripture in question.well, imagine my surprise when i read the scripture in the nrsv bible to realise it says something completely different.the nwt renders it...3 “happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.. however the nrsv says...3 “blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.. i was quite surprised at the completely different meaning so i looked at other translations and they pretty much all say the same thing.
the only one who says anything like spiritual need is the nwt.
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venus
Mat 5:3 is the most simple verse in the Bible that doesn't require any interpretation. It simply speaks about people who do not have any baggage of attachment or sense of ownership because they know such things do not last forever (1 John 2:17) hence look for its opposite (Kingdom of God)
Unfortunately, JW Translators missed the whole point.
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Human element seen in 10 commandments
by venus ini appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.
however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).
1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.
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venus
I appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society. However, I have problem with introductory statements that say: “You shall have no other gods before[a] me… You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (Exodus 20:3-6)
1) This contradicts the characteristics of God described in Mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not. This also goes against the very definition of God in I John 4:8 where word used for love is agape (unconditional love).
2) This defies also the logic. If there is only one God, it would not have been possible for man to find another God to worship, hence prohibition of worship of other gods is unnecessary. If other gods exists, even then prohibition is unnecessary because other gods exists—a fact to be acknowledged.
When God makes a statement, He can’t make mistake. If mistakes occur, it means a thoughtless human being is behind the message.
In such a context, if at all God were to communicate, He would only say something like this: “I am source of all qualities, and have a fullness of them, hence I can only give, not receive, like the ‘sun’ that only gives, but never receives anything in return. (Psalm 84:11) By praising/worshiping Me, neither of us benefits. Instead, you become worship-worthy through your selfless acts. When people observe them, they would love you as worship-worthy, and would even feel inspired to behave like you—thus you both benefit.”