snare&racket
You say “I am lost. Reach out to my intelligence and reason with logic.”
This is because you did not read the OP with thoughtfulness.
Try again, you will find it in it “intelligence and reason with logic.”
Posts by venus
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102If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
Onager
Big bang theory is not an ultimate theory with no flaws. It was proposed because scientists have misinterpreted evidence like the redshift of celestial bodies and the cosmic microwave background radiation.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/big-bang-theory7.htm
You also say I have “tried to sidestep but failed, of "who designed the designer."
But this is already addressed in my reply, and this question is no longer valid one after the introduction of first law of thermodynamics, which says you can't create or destroy energy. Designer is conscious energy which cannot be created nor destroyed.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
Fisherman
You believe only what your senses tell you to believe? Do you think that your senses are of any use without its substratum—the consciousness? By definition, there is a lot that scientists don’t know, because the whole point of science is to explore the unknown. Everyone, including any scientist, experiences the truthfulness of what we all say “I” exist. We are not something just mechanical; we are alive. Scientist can divide me into parts; then put back all those parts, but I will not be found there [yet we know that “I” exists] because I am not a mechanical device, I am not just parts accumulated and arranged. Something more is there, more than all the parts – that something cannot be missed out. Analysis can know the material, not the spiritual. I am spirit, and body is my vehicle because body is silent and inert, but I feel the full force of my personality and even the voice of “I” within me. So I am the conscious energy which uses this body as its vehicle. In other words, conscious energy makes use of senses—not the other way around i.e. senses cannot know the spirit.
We know the limitation of our senses in our daily life. Seeing cards arranged as a pyramid is the work of our sense--eye, and to see also the forces acting in various directions, nullifying each other thus making the pyramid shape takes something other than physical sense. Similarly, our sense eye can see a seed, yet it takes something else other than physical sense to see also within it the invisible program in which all the future generations remains protected.
This aspect is practiced by everyone. For example, evolutionists talk about natural selection — a process that only works by re-shuffling existing genetic information — which means it is supposed to add the massive amounts of new information that are required to get the complexity we see today from a simple single-celled organism over millions of years. How do you get from simple pond scum to highly complex people without adding massive amounts of new genetic information? Whose senses saw this happening millions of years ago?
Atheists also go beyond the scope of senses. To make a claim that no God exists atheists must have unlimited knowledge of this universe. What the atheist is fundamentally saying is that he has infinite knowledge of this universe to affirm that there exist no being with infinite knowledge. I agree with Richard Feynman (Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics) who said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle." That’s out there.
What about things within us? Among other things, DNA code fills me with astonishment. We all know that someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. In every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a computer program. The DNA code in each of our cells is made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual. One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop. Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
That someone is the soul within.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
One group agreed with the OP directly and other group agreed with the OP indirectly by diverting the subject into unrelated subjects such as what should be a flawless analogy?, Who created the designer?’ (a question that has already been answered by science when it said ‘energy cannot be created nor destroyed’ which also means more important conscious energy such as souls and Supreme Soul cannot have beginning nor end), … etc.
To get the proof one needs only to look within. There you find a conscious presence which is the substratum for all the elements of your body, its organ systems, thinking, intelligence and memories…etc. This conscious presence is the conscious energy that created your body. This conscious energy (which cannot be created or destroyed, hence has no beginning and no end) is your true nature, and this true nature is the nature of no birth and no death. My body is like a universe in miniature in which the soul is its creator, and also its king (who can temporarily be overshadowed by ego, a sense of false identity of who I am). This structure is typical of the big universe outside.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
Morpheus,
You understood what I am trying to convey, and pretend you didn't; and you think that you escaped. But deep within you, you know you agree to the absolute truth--design presupposes designer because you proved it with your action:
Your own comments prove that you designed it which means again the same: design means designer.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
DesirousOfChange
If we fastforward, this is what both the group do:
Religion used the word somebody created the universe and everything in it
Atheists use the word something (big bang) created the universe and everything in it
In principle, both are same--someone/something designed universe and everything in it.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
You all got struck with the word MATHEMATICS! I can’t believe it. You are too innocent. I used mathematics as a symbol of any subject about which a teacher teaches. And that teacher made a mistake in the subject he is teaching. This would only prove teacher is wrong, it would not prove the subject he is teaching is non-existent. Similarly, religions depicted God wrongly. It only means religions are wrong, it doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist!
Congratulations to Vanderhoven7 who got this point with absolute clarity.
God’s non existence cannot be proved because we are all flooded with products, machines, tools, gadgets …. all of which primarily prove someone designed them. If every machine primarily proves someone designed it, then a much more complex, wonderful, and living machine with reproductive feature would mean the same: someone with corresponding ability, of higher energy, designed it because effect explains the cause just like harvest explains the sowing (whether you saw sowing or not).
Even if someone creates a human being in a laboratory taking 94 elements and life-force under the live-telecast all over the world, and explains to us what went into his making this human being, it would still primarily prove he is the designer, and the product is the result of his design.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
Cofty,
Behave like a brave warrior, and don't escape from me diverting the subject dragging the name of any organization with whom I do not have any connection.
I am a lone female, ready to take on all you atheists. I challenge you.
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35
Bible is good if we look for implied truth
by venus inthumbs-up gesture doesn’t covey much if we see only four fingers closed and thumb standing upward.
but if we look for the implied meaning, then it is a positive, informal signal indicating a job well done, and saying ‘keep it up.’.
similarly, biblical accounts don’t convey much if we see them as mere accounts.
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venus
Cofty,
When I reminded you about the impropriety of using “fuck off” towards a lady you again used it towards me which means you want to be where you are in the Iron Age, and thus you refuse to evolve—against the very cause evolutionists stand for. Thus your lips support theory of evolution whereas your action proves no evolution is possible.
This further reinforces the conviction of believer like me for whom every product produced in the world is the proof that no product comes without a designer which also proves more complex machine called human being should be designed by a higher designer (which is what rationality means). You think you stand for rationality; yet you are the living proof of irrationality. In the early part of your life, you jumped into a bottomless pit of religious blindness from where you made a similar jump into another bottomless pit of atheism. In either jump, God was not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents God, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without God). It is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong.
Cofty, Behave like a brave warrior, and don't escape from me diverting the subject dragging the name of any organization with whom I do not have any connection.
I am a lone female, ready to take on all you atheists. I challenge you.
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102
If mathematics teacher made a mistake, would it mean mathematics itself is wrong!
by venus inmany people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
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venus
Many people point to the irrationality in the depiction of God by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism. In either camp, God is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents God, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without God). It is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake. Mathematics exists whether mathematics teachers understand it or not. (Psalm 19:1-3)