I sat through a 4 hour lecture by Alan Whanger, a Duke University professor and leading historian on the Shroud. I will just say that it is a fascinating and unique piece of history. Belief in the Shroud as related to Jesus is not a faith-maker or -breaker, however it will certainly stimulate the mind. Believe me, the lecture is far better than any website on the topic.
InChristAlone
JoinedPosts by InChristAlone
-
26
Do you believe in a literal Christ?
by Monsieur indo you believe in a literal christ?.
someone that walked the earth and did the things the bible states he did?
(miracles, etc.).
-
-
-
11
Wesley Hubert Mills, age 74, JW ex-elder, convicted of molesting boy
by Scully inhttp://stoppedophiles.ca/articles/on-wesley-mills.html.
wesley hubert millsex-church elder sentenced for indecent assault on boy.
the saint john times globe - posted: jan 9, 2013. a former jehovah's witness church elder was sentenced yesterday to one year in jail for indecently assaulting a young boy in the late 1970s.. .
-
-
InChristAlone
Ummm...how can the victim be " now in his early 20s " if the molestation was " in the late 1970s "? At best, the late 1970's was 34 years ago.
-
17
jwstruggle
by InChristAlone infor some reason, jwstruggle is redirecting to some strange site on my computer.
is this happening to anyone else?
(forgive me if this has been discussed recently, i looked but didn't see anything about it).
-
-
InChristAlone
I went deep into my history and found this. It takes you straight to the discussion forum.
-
17
jwstruggle
by InChristAlone infor some reason, jwstruggle is redirecting to some strange site on my computer.
is this happening to anyone else?
(forgive me if this has been discussed recently, i looked but didn't see anything about it).
-
-
InChristAlone
For some reason, jwstruggle is redirecting to some strange site on my computer. Is this happening to anyone else? (Forgive me if this has been discussed recently, I looked but didn't see anything about it)
-
16
My first experience at KH
by InChristAlone inthank you to all of you who commented yesterday.
no doubt you gave me an accurate description of what to expect.
when i first walked in, i was greeted by the jw who calls on my house.
-
-
InChristAlone
Crazyguy, actually I did take note of this. Jesus was mentioned four times today. Once in prayer and three times as to how he is our example. In all fairness, the talk was about who Jehovah is, so it would be reasonable to assume that "Jehovah" would dominate this particular conversation. The only time that the organization was mentioned was when the elder read a letter from HQ concerning the international conventions coming up. *I forgot to mention that above...sorry. I am surprised that I didn't hear the words "faithful and discreet slave" today. But like I said, the talk didn't really lend itself to that.
Thanks for your comments everyone. Bob_NC, I hope to meet you in person one day.
-
16
My first experience at KH
by InChristAlone inthank you to all of you who commented yesterday.
no doubt you gave me an accurate description of what to expect.
when i first walked in, i was greeted by the jw who calls on my house.
-
-
InChristAlone
Thank you to all of you who commented yesterday. No doubt you gave me an accurate description of what to expect. When I first walked in, I was greeted by the JW who calls on my house. He showed me what I think was the literature counter. His reference was more to the territory assignments. Then he took me across the room to the information board. It was a bit overwhelming for a newcomer to see all the assignments and information, but I'm sure once used to it, it makes more sense. I'm pretty sure I shook hands with and was introduced to most every male and several females in the congregation. It may be love-bombing, but it is a smart way to make a person feel welcome.
Following the introductions, we went to the seat that my JW friend had saved for us. We stood and sang #1 from the songbook, "Jehovah's Attributes", a fitting song considering the talk given today. I smiled to myself during the song thinking about some of the comments you guys had made regarding the singing quality. Regardless of the "out-of-tune" nature of the songs, the one thing that bothered me was that there was no spirit in the singing. Not that I was expecting anyone to sing and dance naked like King David, but I didn't feel any real praise to our Maker. Two or three beats before the song was over, many people had closed their songbooks and had already assumed the prayer pose. Obviously, they knew what was coming next.
Following the prayer, we sat down and was introduced to the speaker for the day, a guest from another congregation to speak on who Jehovah is. Within the first several sentences, I was reminded of our doctrinal differences as some tenets to my beliefs were utilized as examples of wrong thinking. It didn't surprise me that it came up; it just came up very quickly. The rest of the discussion was agreeable, so I spent a little time examining my surroundings. Because I belong to a church in which young children are kept busy elsewhere, I was intrigued to watch the little kids during the meeting. There were only a few, but their behavior was great. A special-needs child in the back would make noises occasionally, but it didn't seem to bother anyone. Literally during every five-minute period, somebody got up and walked out. I only assume that they were using the bathroom (although the cartoon may suggest otherwise). Some people left two or three times during the course of my stay, even adults. Many of the adolescents in the room appeared somewhat disinterested, and there was a fair amount of yawning around the room. The speaker wasn't boring at all, but I can see that the subject matter has been thoroughly covered before with very little to add. When the speaker was finished, everyone clapped for him. I sort of felt bad that I was the only one who didn't.
A different elder came up for the Watchtower Study along with a young man to do the reading. I was surprised that the elder suggested that people should stay for the study. Did that really need to be said? And yet, still about a dozen people got up and left. To me, it didn't feel like a separate activity than the talk, but rather a continuation. We then sang #14, "All Things Made New". As I am sure that you all know, during the WT study, the young reader would read the paragraphs, and the elder would ask for volunteers to answer the questions. I had to stifle a giggle (after seeing the cartoon) when the first person to answer the question was a little child who answered verbatim what was in the paragraph followed by an adult with a few more practical things to add. The elder did a good job of trying to call on "new" hands following each question. A gentleman sitting near us had to have raised his hand 30+ times only to be called on twice. One must admire his tenacity. This process of going through the WT study was a bit exhausting for me. Little was said to add any practical value, the subject matter was completely agreeable to me, and verbatim answers were being overutilized. Even my JW friend yawned several times. Following the study, we stood and sang #134 "See Yourself When All is New", prayed and was dismissed. I then greeted everyone who I didn't meet the first time, spoke for a while with my JW friend and left.
As far as my analysis of the experience, I try to think of some of the deeper things. Of course, I can only contrast it with my own experiences, but here it goes. While there were some doctrinal differences mentioned, they were not matters of deeper discussion today. I differ on the idea of the great crowd vs. the anointed, where they end up, and what exactly the ransom sacrifice is and what it means for us. Those three things came up several times in people's answers. But, I can't blame them or judge them for having different beliefs. They are sincere in their beliefs (as am I) and clearly indoctrinated by hearing the same thing over and over and over (as I was). So, to me, besides the structure of the meeting, there was little that was inherently different from many of the churches that I have attended over the years. Except for one major thing.
The focus of the entire talk and WT study seemed to be on taking in an accurate knowledge of God...but not about knowing or experiencing God. To me, this is huge. This difference affects how one views God and their relationship with Him. Having before experienced the power of God, or the Holy Spirit, I am concerned to have felt that void during my visit at the KH. This difference is what creates that need to do things so God will find you acceptable vs. doing things because God has already found you acceptable. I would have loved to have genuinely praised God during the songs, but I felt as if there was no praise being lifted at all. It was these things that I had the most difficulty with.
The brothers and sisters there are very nice. Only one person made a comment about my beard, but not in a judgmental way. He has visited my house several times before, so I guess he felt comfortable asking about it. There is definitely a high amount of self-discipline within the areas of the meeting, although there is little bladder control. The people are generally enthusiastic about answering questions during the WT study, some more than others. I had no interest in bringing up questionable things today, perhaps in the future, although I have no plans on returning anytime soon. Well, there you go, please feel free to stoke my memory with questions. I'll answer the best I can.
-
39
Going to Kingdom Hall for first time
by InChristAlone insince my family is out of town, and i am alone this weekend, i have decided to attend this once to see these things for myself.
have no fear, i have absolutely no interest in joining.
my goal is simply to better understand how to reach those who are on the inside, and i feel i could better do that by observing it.
-
-
InChristAlone
Thanks bildad, true words of wisdom. My relatives really do try to live genuine Christian lives and are really wonderful people. They do run from any conversation though that may shed light on the organization. Based on my interactions with the JW's in my area, I expect the same in both areas.
-
39
Going to Kingdom Hall for first time
by InChristAlone insince my family is out of town, and i am alone this weekend, i have decided to attend this once to see these things for myself.
have no fear, i have absolutely no interest in joining.
my goal is simply to better understand how to reach those who are on the inside, and i feel i could better do that by observing it.
-
-
InChristAlone
Cantleave, I just watched those cartoons right after posting the last comment. Very funny, and thank you. I better get some good sleep tonight. OnTheWayOut, I applaud everyone here who has been able to learn TTATT as well as those who have been able to help others to see it. The only thing that I am sure of is my own relationship with God. I firmly believe that it is not me who would reach a JW, but Him through me. If it doesn't happen, so be it. If it does, to Him be the glory. I'll be sure to post up my experience. In the meantime, thank you all for your comments!
-
39
Going to Kingdom Hall for first time
by InChristAlone insince my family is out of town, and i am alone this weekend, i have decided to attend this once to see these things for myself.
have no fear, i have absolutely no interest in joining.
my goal is simply to better understand how to reach those who are on the inside, and i feel i could better do that by observing it.
-
-
InChristAlone
I appreciate your thoughts, both the funny ones and the serious ones. To answer some of your questions, Desirous, Slimboy, and Truthseeker, I am very comfortable with my relationship with God, the church I attend, and my belief system. A large side of my family are in (cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.), but they have little bearing in my interest. For over two years, I have developed a real desire to see JWs learn TTATT and speak with them whenever I can. While I can speak with some degree of knowledge regarding intellectual things, I cannot speak with any knowledge regarding what they actually experience. So, I have decided to take this opportunity to sit through a meeting. In my mind, I will be analyzing it similar to a recent article that was posted here.
Tootired, thanks for the input on getting there early and where to sit. I don't plan on speaking at all although your idea is hilarious. Giordano, the JW who has come to my house for the last two years is aware that I am coming, so with any luck he will prevent anyone from labeling me. I appreciate the attire comment, although I have no interest in shaving my beard. They can live with it. Gayle, thanks for the warning.
What is the structure of the two hours that I will be there? I plan on bringing my own Bible. Anything else that I will need? Anything else you all can think of? I would like to be as mentally prepared as possible.
-
39
Going to Kingdom Hall for first time
by InChristAlone insince my family is out of town, and i am alone this weekend, i have decided to attend this once to see these things for myself.
have no fear, i have absolutely no interest in joining.
my goal is simply to better understand how to reach those who are on the inside, and i feel i could better do that by observing it.
-
-
InChristAlone
Since my family is out of town, and I am alone this weekend, I have decided to attend this once to see these things for myself. Have no fear, I have absolutely no interest in joining. My goal is simply to better understand how to reach those who are on the inside, and I feel I could better do that by observing it. So, my question to all of you is...what should I expect?