Hey Londo, remember all the discussion on jwstruggle about this very thing?
InChristAlone
JoinedPosts by InChristAlone
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Paul's rationale...
by NeverKnew inas a non-jw discussing "the only true" christianity with jws, i brought up romans 14 for obvious reasons.
after reviewing the chapter as a whole and asking appropriate questions, i went back up to verse 11 and sincerely asked, .
"by the way, how are comparative verses like romans 14:11, isaiah 45:23 and phillippians 2:9-11 interpreted in your faith with the same language being attributed to the father in the ot and jesus in the nt?
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Paul's rationale...
by NeverKnew inas a non-jw discussing "the only true" christianity with jws, i brought up romans 14 for obvious reasons.
after reviewing the chapter as a whole and asking appropriate questions, i went back up to verse 11 and sincerely asked, .
"by the way, how are comparative verses like romans 14:11, isaiah 45:23 and phillippians 2:9-11 interpreted in your faith with the same language being attributed to the father in the ot and jesus in the nt?
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InChristAlone
If you are looking for a quicker response, perhaps try posting the same question on topix.com under the Jehovah's Witness forum. There are several eager witnesses who seem to congregate there.
Although I am a non-JW as well, I have had this discussion with them before. Here is what I would anticipate hearing, although I welcome correction from former or current JW's.
(NWT) Isaiah 45:23b says, " that to me every knee will bend down, every tongue will swear ". Romans 14:11 says, " for it is written: “‘As I live,’ says Jehovah, ‘to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will make open acknowledgment to God.’” Phillippians 2:10-11 says, " so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
What I would expect to hear is this...the three verses do not conflict with each other or prove that Jehovah is Jesus. In fact, you can merge the three together to say this...(R) "As I live", says Jehovah, (P) that in the name of Jesus ever knee should bend down (R/I) to me, (P) and those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and (ALL) every tongue (I) will swear (R) and make open acknowledgment to God (P) that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. Therefore the verses work well together and also differentiate the Father from the Son.
It is easier to argue these verses when using other translations that use "Lord" in Romans 14:11 considering that verse 9 calls Jesus "Lord". But you will not go far with them using a translation other than the NWT.
There are many other Jehovah/Jesus correlations that will get you further than this one. I hope that helps.
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A scary day in FS today
by InChristAlone intoday, the jw who normally comes and his son visited my house.
we were talking on the doorstep for about ten or fifteen minutes when the son began to to faint.
i saw it coming, but i couldn't reach him before he fell backwards, hitting his head on the brick landscaping border.
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InChristAlone
Today, the JW who normally comes and his son visited my house. We were talking on the doorstep for about ten or fifteen minutes when the son began to to faint. I saw it coming, but I couldn't reach him before he fell backwards, hitting his head on the brick landscaping border. We called 911 and EMS came and took care of him. Many other JW's were quick to arrive on the scene, well before EMS (that's comforting...). I know the boy will be all right. I just wished I could have been two seconds faster in recognizing what was happening. Poor kid.
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From the vantage point of an outsider
by InChristAlone ini have been reading on here for about a year and a half, joined some time ago, and have posted on rare occasions.
since i have become a little more comfortable in this forum lately, i thought i would give you some insight into who i am and why i am here.
i am a christian in the sense that i follow christ and no man-made organization.
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InChristAlone
Greetings,
I have been reading on here for about a year and a half, joined some time ago, and have posted on rare occasions. Since I have become a little more comfortable in this forum lately, I thought I would give you some insight into who I am and why I am here. I am a Christian in the sense that I follow Christ and no man-made organization. I do believe in God because I have experienced first-hand His blessings, His comfort, and miraculous things that can only be attributed to Him. I have never been a JW although I have an entire side of my family who are, and I love them dearly. They still talk with me, although we have an agreement not to delve into religion, just to keep things amiable.
I became fascinated with the JW's about two years ago when I finally decided to take a step back from my own indoctrination and examine scriptures for myself. It was very interesting to me how a group of people could take the same 66 books of the Bible and come up with a completely different understanding. So my search has been to examine why I believe what I believe. I have a long way to go, but it is a marathon rather than a sprint. As I have learned more and more about the JW's, I have developed a real concern for those who are asleep within the organization for the same reasons as many of you. The vast majority of the people in it are no different than me, just sitting there and accepting the indoctrination that comes their way. Whether or not they ever agree with me doctrinally is of no concern to me. Whether or not they suffer at the hands of a cult matters a great deal to me.
My purpose here is in no way to convert or challenge anyone's belief system. I may occasionally offer explanations regarding beliefs of mainstream Christianity, but it is never for the sake of argument. I truly appreciate the wealth of knowledge within the members of this forum and the variety of backgrounds here. Many of you have challenged me to ponder many things, and for that I thank you. Please keep it up.
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The godless commit less crime, have longer marriages and are more highly educated than almost any other group in America
by DJS inteam,.
the following is a letter to the editor from this morning's local newspaper.
i haven't vetted any of this, and i don't know the writer of it.
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InChristAlone
Declaring moral superiority over fellow humans is definitely not a godly activity. If you are speaking of recent legislative arenas, everyone has the equal right to state their beliefs. The hypocrisy comes in with either side's belief that they are better than the other. The truly godly people that I know see themselves as having been formed in the same mold as those with whom they disagree, thus they are no better, just thankful for God's grace. I firmly believe that labels mean absolutely nothing.
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The godless commit less crime, have longer marriages and are more highly educated than almost any other group in America
by DJS inteam,.
the following is a letter to the editor from this morning's local newspaper.
i haven't vetted any of this, and i don't know the writer of it.
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InChristAlone
The only issue I have with this study is the assumption that because one has a label, than they must be godly. It is deceiving in that regard.
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New Rumor - Watchtower and Awake in one magazine only?
by TJ Curioso inhi folks!.
someone told me that there is a rumor that soon the watchtower and awake's magazines will be only one (fusion).. anybody knows something concrete about that, or is only rumor instead?.
tj curioso.
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InChristAlone
I have been reading posts lately from JW's saying that the reduction in pages is a clear sign of the end coming because there is much less that needs to be said. Talk about a "water's-half-full" kind of person!
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The true meaning of "Jehovah" and the "overlapping generation" REVEALED!
by slimboyfat inthere has been some renewed interest in the meaning of the name jehovah on the forum in recent weeks.
combined with the ongoing discussion about the new "overlapping generation" teaching, speculation among the friends and among the ex-friends has been reaching something of a frenzy.
so it's perhaps appropriate that a little more should be revealed now about the meaning behind some of the perplexing events that have been taking place.
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InChristAlone
Is this a contest to find factual errors in that post? Laika got one with the addition. I'll add that Eisenhower wasn't sworn in using the NIV. Any more out there?
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Has anybody had JWs call on your home lately?
by Scarred for life ini did today.
the woman brought a small brochure inviting me to the district convention here in gwinnett county, georgia on july 5, 6, and 7th.
the surprising thing to me is that the jws have modernized a little bit.
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InChristAlone
They have come to my house for the past two weeks. Call me crazy, but I enjoy the banter. It makes me smile to ask them questions based on things I see here and note their reactions.
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Arguments in favor of the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE
by TJ Curioso ini received the following explanation in favor of the date of 607 bce.
accepted comments on the points at issue.. .
conclusion.
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InChristAlone
I actually read all of that and found it quite fascinating. I didn't understand it all, but fascinating nonetheless.