Some of the best advise that I got was from an elder. He told me(going very much against the company line of course) to enjoy youth. Enjoy the freedom and strength that you have. Don't get tied down with one girl. Get the things you want. Get a nice car. Get a cool stereo. Travel and see places that you always wanted to see. He told me to look at the people that I knew that got married at 18 or 20. Do they look happy? Would you be happy dragging a 2 year old around everywhere you go and you haven't even been out of your parents house 2 whole years yet? Not once did he mention pioneering or serving Jehovah. He was straight up and honest. He knew that a lot of people didn't go into pioneering. Why force the issue. He just didn't want people to marry badly and then be miserable. He knew from experience. He married young, had several kids and never got the car he wanted, never went to places he wanted to see and was miserable with his wife. I listened to him and didn't get married until my late 20s. Looking back on that, I sometimes wonder if I was even ready then. But I did have a cool car.
undercover
JoinedPosts by undercover
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42
Marrying Young
by Descender insomething has been bothering me as of late.
my younger brother, who is 17 years old plans on getting married right after he turns 18 this upcoming year.
i have quite a few problems with this, but he thinks that he knows it all at his age.. i'm concerned for several reasons.
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58
What TV shows were you told not to watch as a JW ???
by run dont walk invictorian sky has a great thread on music.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/57646/1.ashx.
it got me thinking, about tv shows, anything in particular you were told not to watch, being a little kid in the 70's i do remember hearing shows from the platform that we should not watch.
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undercover
Man, I feel for you guys that couldn't watch the Simpsons. That has got to be one of the best commentaries on American life there is.
Buy the DVDs or watch the reruns in syndication. What a great show.
Our mother was much more conservative than our father. Mom banned MASH, but Dad loved it, so we got to watch it with him. SNL was the same way. If he stayed up to watch, us kids got to stay up and watch, while Mom fumed alone somewhere else in the house.
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What TV shows were you told not to watch as a JW ???
by run dont walk invictorian sky has a great thread on music.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/57646/1.ashx.
it got me thinking, about tv shows, anything in particular you were told not to watch, being a little kid in the 70's i do remember hearing shows from the platform that we should not watch.
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undercover
You guys that couldn't watch Scooby Doo....of the ones that I remember watching(the originals, before Scrappy Doo), there was always a logical reason for the spookiness. A bad guy using a projector or a ghost costume to scare people. There wasn't any real supernatural stuff happening. That shows how overreactionary people can be.
The Simpsons. Not appropriate for younger children, I'll grant you that. But for teens and young adults? Gimme a break. And Bethel banning them?(if true) What are they afraid of? That Homer might spill the beans about the WTS chronology being false? Is Monty Burns on the GB?
We were not allowed to watch Jeannie, Bewitched, Casper, but the Munsters and the Addams Family was OK. I remember the Disney movie, Bedknobs and Broomsticks was a no-no, but Snow White, Cinderella was OK. Conflicting rules laid on JW kids. No wonder they're so messed up as adults.
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31
As a YOUNG loyal JW, did you think you would see you're 60th birthday ?
by run dont walk inwith all the talk in the organization about the end being so close, and we have all heard this story over and over again for years, as a young/loyal jw, did you think you would see your 60th birthday.. if we were to walk into the kingdom hall today and poll all the jw's under 30, and ask them "will you see your 60th birthday", what kind of response would you get ???.
armageddon is not coming, the year 2014 will pass, as will 2025, 2075, 2100, and even 3000. .
would love to hear experiences from some of the older ones on this board, who probaly thought the same thing when they were young.
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undercover
Of course I believed I would see 60. And 160, and 260, and 360 etc.
Seriously though, it was ingrained in my head that this system would not go on long enough for me to need a retirement fund. I didn't care about owning a house or building up credit. It would not matter at Armageddon. But now my life is half over and nothing predicted has happened.
It was the same for my parents generation and my grandparents generation. My grandparents are dead and my parents are working though they should retire because they didn't have a very good retirement plan. Guess why they didn't plan on retiring?
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24
Seattle PI article on Jdubs
by jimbob insome of it is a joke, cause they say the jw's are a fast growing religion...i'm sure the author of the article only talked to dubs and not ex-dubs to find out the real "truth"...].
the article can be found at this link:.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/136796_jehovah27.html.
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undercover
To outsiders, the group's methods might seem sure to produce failures, but researchers say they're effective.
Which researchers are these? I spent over 20 years using this method and it was never effective for me. I know only a handful of people who came into the "truth" through the door to door work. Considering the several congregations that I was associated with and the hundreds of witnesses that I knew around the country, that's a pretty slim return for all that work.
Maybe someone should take this reporter to task and ask them to produce this research.
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57
What musical groups or songs were bad according to JWs?
by Victorian sky inwhat songs or groups were you forbidden to listen to as a jw?
were any specifically mentioned from the platform or were you counseled not to listen to a certain song?
for me it was the entire def leopard hysteria album - bad heavy metal told it was demonic, i listened to it in secret, silk's "freak me" - a virgin listening to a song about hot sex?
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undercover
Basically, all of them.
Lessee, ones that I remember being mentioned; The Beatles(used drugs, John shacked up with Yoko, the Jesus comment) The Stones(drugs, badboy image), Led Zeppelin(drugs, mysticism, Stairway played backwards said something or other), The Who(drugs, violence, Pete smashed guitars ya know), Black Sabbath(satanism), Bob Dylan(trouble maker), Fleetwood Mac(mysticism, drugs), Eageles(drugs, Hotel Calif. was satanic), Prince(sex), Queen(gay and backward masking), Huey Lewis(drugs), James Taylor(mental patient),KISS(Knights In Satan's Service), RUSH(Raised Under Satan's House), all Disco(sex), all Heavy Metal(violence), all Rap, Hip-Hop(sex, language, violence). There were many, many more.
One funny one was a sister during the WT study on debasing music(for the umpteenth time) said that her daughter brought home an album by a band called 10,000 Maniacs. She made her get rid of it, because she wouldn't allow one maniac in her house, let alone 10,000. It kills me how people jump to conclusions. If she had bothered to listen to the album, I'm sure she wouldn't have minded. They were a pretty tame band, talented, but tame.
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As an elder or MS, how did you NOT see it, or did you just fake it ???
by run dont walk ini find it fascinating, i never had a position in the congregation, .
how does an elder, who sees all the flipflops in doctrine, the special body of elders letters and publications, and jc, and elders meetings, not see that the watchtower is full of ----, .
did judical commitees, and elders meetings take a toll on you ???
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undercover
I was an MS for a while. I didn't see more information than the regular publishers. About the only thing that ever surprised me was how the CO was pretty cold during those Elder/MS meetings.
Same here. I was an MS on and off. No special books or perks for the MS's. In fact, life was hard for us at times. We kept the records, sold the literature before and after the meetings, led the field service meetings during the week, etc. Had to be at the meetings early to unlock the hall. Last one out to lock it up.
I still remember the CO visits and the meetings with the elders/MS's. He went from being a motivating, easy going, kid friendly, older, spiritual man with the meekness of Christ to a company director or manager operating a quarterly report meeting with his supervisors. It was strictly business. The elders came in all uptight, like they knew they were gonna get chewed out for something. Usually someone did. I remember one CO ripping into one MS because he asked a question. Told him he wasn't there to ask questions, he was there to listen. That same CO read a sentance out of the organization book and completely mis-applied it. That was the beginning of the end for me. The CO was operating from a script that came from the Society during the MS portion of the meeting, so I knew he just wasn't making this up. As he went on with his script, I read the whole paragraph and then the skimmed the chapter. I knew that something was amiss. I spent that whole hour going over in my head wondering why they would do this and how dumb did they think we were. Afterwards I spoke with other MS's and a couple of them agreed that it didn't seem right, but they were sure there was a reason. From then on, I started questioning everything. And here I am.
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As a witness did you secretly celebrate holidays?
by Dimples inwhen i was a witness i knew of many who would either celebrate certain holidays in secret or make up for them some other way.
such as, family day ( christmas ) costume parties ( halloween ), i even knew several who made it a point to go see the fireworks on the 4th of july.
my mother told a wife of an elder that she always felt weird on mother's day for not sending a card to her mom, because her mom expected one.
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undercover
In school, it was hard to watch as everyone else celebrated and had fun. As an adult witness, I did go to a few "parties", even though we were not supposed to, but that was about as far as I went. Now that I'm inactive, I still got to the parties and dinners, but I don't celebrate much of the holidays as most people do. I like Halloween the best though and look forward to that one and the costume parties that workmates throw. Neighbors throw one hell of a July 4th party. That's fun. But as far as Thanksgiving and Xmas, I don't do anything for them. If I'm invited to the company party, I'll go. No tree, no gift buying. It does make life a little easier, seems like, not having to run around and buy tons of stuff for everybody and their brother and worrying about decorating and then cleaning up.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Are Under Mind Control
by minimus inif you were to tell a witness that they were "brainwashed" or that they were "under mind control", they certainly would not rationally accept it.the reason is because witnesses cannot distinguish between mind control and "obeying the faithful and discreet slave".
it is only after a person stops exposing himself to the subtle mind controlling tactics of the watchtower that a person can see how thoroughly duped they are in their beliefs.
how might you be able to tell that you are no longer your own person, able to make your own decisions in your life?
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undercover
....mind control of any kind is a myth, that controlling organizations of any stripe - religious, professional, etc., all attempt to influence our behavior,but that control of our minds is a far different thing. She felt that members of Scientology, Moonies, etc, are influenced by their groups, but that they are getting benefits from the structure that solve some problem, fill some void, or address some need in their lives at that time. People leave when they discern (not us, them!) a deficit in the benefits vs. the prices.
For every one "professional" that says mind control doesn't exist another exists that says it does. But she does make a good point.
But for sake of debate, let me say this: The highlighted sentance is not so simple with "high control" groups. A witness just can't leave without ramifications. If one says, "Hey, I decided that you're not the right religion, I'm leaving" he is faced with losing his family, friends, even more sometimes. If one says this then a whole community of people(the congregation) are led to believe that he is a bad person. If one could just leave when he decides he wants to then there is no "control" issue. But when a JW wants to leave, he is ridiculed, persecuted, humiliated, shunned. This is more than just mere "influence". This is the group leaders using group peer pressure to keep group members in line. This is control or at least an attempt at control. Using emotions and fear to keep people in line is a form of control, whether it's called mind control or whatever.
As I posted earlier(way earlier) even our mothers use this guilt trip to keep adult kids feeling guilty. There are various levels of this "control". Some more harmful than others. I don't buy into the notion that someone, anyone or any group can control minds and can make people operate like robots, but the emotional pressures, guilt feelings, and other influences exerted on a certain group of people will result in a percentage of them following the direction or instructions of the leaders of whatever group they are in.
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Unbelievable experiences at assemblies or conventions
by Dimples inwhat experience at an assembly or convention caused you to raise your eyebrows in disbelief?.
one that comes to mind is a 5 year old conducting several bible studies.
wasn't it hard enough for an adult to get a bible study?
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undercover
I knew he was a member of the Guess Who, but I didn't know he replaced Burton Cummings. The thing I find funny is that the Guess Who was NOTHING after Burton Cummings left.
Randy Bachman left and started Bachman-Turner Overdrive. So with both Cummings and Bachman gone the Guess Who was basically a cover band.