Thanks for the clarification, JT.
My apologies to your wife for doubting her.
Please do keep us posted on your elder friend's exit from the clutches of the WTS.
undercover
JoinedPosts by undercover
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53
One More Elder who is starting to Question the WT
by sis in distress inhe told my husband ?i don?t care, i just need to know is this the truth or not?
i just don?t understand why.
once again i was asked a question that i could not answer.
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53
One More Elder who is starting to Question the WT
by sis in distress inhe told my husband ?i don?t care, i just need to know is this the truth or not?
i just don?t understand why.
once again i was asked a question that i could not answer.
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undercover
I re-read my post and I think I came off a little on the harsh side.
It's possible that JT and sis gave this elder friend some older information regarding the UN/NGO thing. It's also possible that someone is pulling our chain. I don't know. I want to believe that the letter is for real and that JT and sis are for real.
I don't want to be on a lynch mob and accuse someone of trying to pull a fast one, but after recent events I think some of us are a little more skeptical of certain things. I think we need to remain calm and wait for an explanation from either sis or JT.
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53
One More Elder who is starting to Question the WT
by sis in distress inhe told my husband ?i don?t care, i just need to know is this the truth or not?
i just don?t understand why.
once again i was asked a question that i could not answer.
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undercover
I'd like to think the letter is on the up and up, but a couple of things already mentioned made me wonder.
Others now have questioned if sis-in-distress is real or not. In a previous post she says she is married to JT. JT's posts and her posts have the same IP address. Maybe she is for real, if JT can give us some insight on this, if JT is for real. JT?
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Silentlambs: Letter from an Elder
by Nosferatu indear bill
recently, we had our two-day circuit assembly.
some points for you to note.
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undercover
He asked the audience to "let go of resentment" and suggested "maybe a past where someone was abused as a child... can you let go of that..."
I've never been physically or sexually abused. But I was raised in the JW religion. I'm over 40 years old. My life is half over and I'm just discovering that I have been lied to and deceived all my life. Not to make light of those who have gone through some terrible ordeals physically, but I believe that I was mentally abused. I was brainwashed and controlled. We all were. I'm now getting to being able to function on my own will. I'm having a hard time dealing with all the feelings and anger that comes with knowing that you trusted someone or something and they used you, lied to you and deceived you.
For this person(I will not call him a man) to suggest that a victim of some hideous crime against his person should "let go of that" is despicable and disgusting. How dare he stand on that stage and imply that the victims of these crimes can just turn off these feelings. Has he no compassion? Has he no fellow feeling? In so many words he is placing the whole child abuse problem on the victims. What a sorry excuse for a decent human being. Someone who is supposed to be a man of God, representing God's (so-called) organization and he dares insinuate that the problem lies with the victims. It disgusts me. It sickens me. I can only loathe someone who would dare think that way. Instead of further demoralilzing the victims, shouldn't the abusers be condemned and identified so that people can protect their families from these monsters? What a sorry state of affairs the WTS has gotten itself into. Not even God can get them out of this one.
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Just wait five years
by Euphemism ini was just reading crisis of conscience, and i was struck by something a judicial committee said to ed dunlap.the committee urged him to "wait on the organization," saying, "who knows?
perhaps five years from now many or all of these things you are saying will be published and taught.".
it struck me because when i had my meeting with the elders, one of them said almost the exact same thing.. ironic, isn't it?
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undercover
The same answers(or non-answers) that I get for any topic:
1. Put that aside for now and concentrate on meetings, service and studying for the meetings.
2. Do not run ahead of the organization. Jehovah allows wrong "thinking" by the slave to test our loyalty to him(read his organization). Even if you're right, it's wrong to not allow the slave class to direct the work. Jehovah has his time table and the slave will reveal what he wants, when he wants.
3. The earthly organization is run by imperfect men. They make mistakes. They are not infalliable.
Those last two really get me. They make mistakes, but we can't question them. If you show them a doctrinal error or a inconsistancy, they immediately shut down. They can't think, they can't reason, they can't use logic. They are programmed to rely strictly on WTS teaching. When it's exposed as wrong, the fail safe switch flips, shutting down the system, much like a circuit breaker flips when too much electricity threatens the wiring system.
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53
Are The Holidays Bothering You At All?
by minimus inthis is the first time i say, "merry christmas" back to someone.
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undercover
I've never been big on Christmas. I've never really missed it. I don't want to fool with the tree, ornaments, lights and all that stuff. Saving money from having to buy gifts for so many people has always been a plus also.
What I do "miss"(even though raised a JW) are the family gatherings and parties. I hated not being able to share in the holiday cheer. JWs always put down worldly people as "fake" because they showed holiday spirit. I actually like the holiday season. People do seem to have and exhibit a good spirit. I like to see the homes and businesses when decorated for the holidays(if done with some taste). It's one month out of the year that everyone can slow down from life just a little and enjoy family and friends and make new friends. I have been to several holiday parties this year. They have been a lot of fun.
I still have trouble responding to "Merry Christmas" with a return "Merry Christmas" or even a "Happy Holidays". I find myself saying "Thank You". I remember as a kid that we were instructed to say to anyone who told us "Merry Christmas" that we didn't celebrate Christmas and explain why. I dreaded having people say "Merry Christmas" to me because I was supposed to teach them the "pagan" history of Christmas and explain that they were dishonoring Jesus, all because they said something nice to me. JWs say it's a good way to informal witness. I say it's a good way to piss someone off. Here's somebody who's trying to be nice and wish you something good and a non fun-loving, joyless, ingrate has to make a federal case out of it. They're being nice. Accept it and return a nice saying back or at least say "Thank You".
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The Elders Are Getting Opinions About Minimus
by minimus inmy mother told me that her bookstudy overseer asked his group this question---"why do you think a mature brother in the truth would just suddenly leave and stop coming to meetings?
any ideas?
" the group gave different opinions and finally he gave what he thought could be the reasons.
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undercover
Not related to the thread but I just had to comment on this:
In fact, my best friend has been pressuring me to come hear his circuit assembly talk ("new" information about Nimrod and Belshazzar -- yawn).
How can you have "new" information on Nimrod? Have new Bible books been found? I used to be like everybody else at these talks, soaking up all this "new" information. It wasn't until distancing myself from them that I wondered, "just where does this new information come from if JWs rely on the Bible as their source for all Godly knowledge?"
We now return you to the regularly scheduled Minimus thread.
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undercover
It is true, however, that if a person has persistent health problems, they will probably be asked to leave Bethel, unless they have been there for 15 years or more, in which case they are guaranteed permanent care (as long as they remain a faithful Witness).
Is that in writing? I mean, do they have some kind of health care plan after they leave after 15 years? Is the underwriting by the WTS itself or by a "worldly" company? If you have an insurance policy or health care policy provided much like a retirement plan then can that plan discriminate against someone based on their religion?
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What Ways Did You Rebel Against The Elders & The "Truth"?
by minimus ini used to get a kick out of how some people used to push the elder's buttons.
sisters would wear a dress that was 1 inch above the knee just to get the brothers going.
or brothers would grow something a little longer than a mustache......what did you do to exert your independence??
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undercover
The stories about conduct at/after the conventions reminded me of our conventions when I was in my late teens/early twenties.
Even though the convention was in our city, several of us would rent rooms(on the apporved list of course)and stay at the hotels and party after the session. It started out with just a few of us. Each year, though, it got out how much fun we were having and more and more young people were renting rooms. I remember packing 8 people in a room for four. I remember underage drinking at the bar and then in the room. That's where I learned to play "quarters". Skinny dipping in the pool. Complaints about the noise. Rumors about who hooked up with who. After several years though, I saw that it was getting out of hand. Not that I was concerned about righteous standards or christian conduct. I just knew the lid would blow off and people would get in trouble and others would squeel on the rest. So one year I opted to not go. Good thing too. Hotel security busted up an underage drinking party. Parents were called in. Elders were called in. Judicial meetings out the wazoo. People squeeled on other people. All kinds of shit had been going down that I didn't know about. Sex, drugs and rocknroll. About as close as a JW youth would have to living the rock n roll lifestyle I guess. A bunch of reproofs and a couple of DFs. I got caught up in it because I had gone every year before that one. I was interrogated intensely. I waited till they gave me a chance to talk and blew smoke up their ass. I told them that I knew that only trouble would come of it, and that my consciense guided me to not stay at these hotels anymore. heh heh. They bought it.
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34
What Ways Did You Rebel Against The Elders & The "Truth"?
by minimus ini used to get a kick out of how some people used to push the elder's buttons.
sisters would wear a dress that was 1 inch above the knee just to get the brothers going.
or brothers would grow something a little longer than a mustache......what did you do to exert your independence??
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undercover
I rebelled in lots of little things but never enough to get in real trouble. I drove a muscle car with loud pipes. I listened to "debasing music". I watched whatever I felt like watching(including porn). I read books. Lots of books. Mostly fiction, but violent, war-mongering stories. I wore current fashions, without going completely overboard(I never did the Miami Vice look, LOL). Loud cartoon ties and dark shirts. Mustache and soul patch, with an occasional 3-4 day goatee. Hair too long, hair too stylish, hair too short. Went to lots of rock/pop concerts. Went to local clubs and bars. Went out with worldly girls. Had worldly friends. Socialized with worldly workmates. Drank more than would be considered "in moderation". These were indirect rebellious acts. Not planned rebelliousness, just my personality and the way I did things. Not answering at meetings was one direct rebellious act though. I couldn't see how god would accept or not accept you because you read words out of a magazine in front of people. I refused to do it. I didn't want to, didn't need to and ain't nobody gonna make me.
Despite doing all thes minor rebellious things, I was still an MS and considered a good example to the congegation. Mostly because even though I didn't necessarily lead two lives, I didn't publicize what I was doing. What I did was my business and no one else's. I knew who I could trust and who I couldn't. I didn't kiss elder's asses, but I didn't go out of my way to give them trouble. I mostly stayed out of their way. They left me alone and I left them alone. On the occasional pep talk from one, I would just nod my head in the affirmative a lot and they felt good about themselves and went on their way and I completely ignored what they said. I did get called in to a couple of informal judicial meetings when things happened at gatherings that they wanted to know about and expected me to spill. I got complained on from a few people in the congregation. When the elders talked to me, I asked who had the problem. They wouldn't say so I said something about Matthew 18 and maybe that person should see me instead of running to them. That usually shut them up. All in all, I got away with a lot that some others never could. I never figured out how I could but others couldn't other than maybe because I was never a ring-leader or flashy, I tended to melt into the background.