Posts by undercover

14

Sheeplike?? A Christian Requirement or WT Controlling mechanism?

by BluesBrother in

when we were practising witnesses we heard a lot about the need to be "sheeplike" , having a sheeplike attitude and personality .

a typical comment might be :.

"lasting peace & happiness just ahead" 2009 p 30.

undercover

Well, Clarice... have the lambs stopped screaming?

9

My Thanksgiving Tradition As One of Jehovah's Witnesses

by TMS in

the jw prohibition of celebrating holidays includes the american celebration of thanksgiving, a sort of innocuous harvest festival, where thanks is given for the year's blessings.

a typical family eats a large meal together, including turkey and all the trimmings.

in recent decades, nfl football, always involving the dallas cowboys and detroit lions, has become part of the routine, as well as drinking beer.. every year or so, the "awake!

undercover

My in-laws celebrate Thanksgiving, complete with turkey and all the dressings, and joining in with non-JW family for the occasion. They just don't admit it.

My family, a much more conservative branch of JWism, never came close to doing anything that could be construed as 'celebrating' anything worldly. We hid in the dark on Halloween. We laid up provisions and shuttered ourselves inside for the entire Thanksgiving weekend. Similar with Xmas. Pretended the other holidays didn't exist.

So, it was quite the adjustment for me to visit my in-laws over Thanksgiving after getting married. They never admitted celebrating, and they never used the word 'Thanksgiving' yet we celebrated it just as hard as everyone else who wasn't a JW.

133

Election Post-Mortem

by Simon in

i'm sure many people, republicans included, are shocked at the results of the 2016 presidential election.

really, wtf!.

the polls were wrong and although it's tempting to blame voter suppression and fbi interference, that would just avoid looking at the real issues for the loss.

undercover

It's another one finger gesture from the electorate to their leaders, a real "fuck you, we'll do as we like" sort of gesture. Just like in the UK, there's a rebellion among ordinary folk

Based a lot on fear with a good dollop of ignorance thrown in. I know quite a few people who supported Trump. They aren't bigots, or sexists, or even hard core right wingers. But they feel disenfranchised as the world changes around them. America is a big country, and the 'progressiveness' of the urban centers does not reach out into the rural areas where most people's lives haven't changed for generations. Due to a certain degree of ignorance, they fear new ideas and things unknown to them, and they buy into conservative rhetoric. Throw in the baggage that came with Clinton (and she did have quite the luggage compartment), and then when that candidate calls them 'deplorable', they get their back up. And just as moderate, well meaning Republicans held their nose and voted for Clinton, many of these decent, hard working, backbone of the working class folks revolted against the political machine of Clinton, held their nose and voted for Trump.

It is sad to a degree that many of the decent people get swept up into the 'depolorable' basket along with the real bigots, sexists and hatemongers. But OTOH, if slop around in the mud with a pig, you might get mistaken for one.

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

undercover

Resurrecting (hey! Get me! I'm Jesus!) this old thread.

Looks like my predictions were wrong. Armageddon is again in the fore front of many a JW mind today.

But, OTOH, when the election is over, and someone else is in office, we can sit back and chuckle as the Armageddon is once again put back on hold, and dubs can go back to worrying about their field service hours, and where to stop for break...

31

JWs Excited Trump Won

by LaurenM in

i am incredibly disturbed.

many of the jws i'm still friends with on facebook are incredibly excited that trump won the american presidential race, posting, "yay!

i'm so happy!

undercover

They are happy that their country is facing a Fascist crisis. They think it will jump start Armageddon.

Exactly. It is amazing how they read into a world event, that has nothing to do with them, that it's all about them.

I reminded one family member that while this may be a dark moment, it's not Hitler or Stalin, or the great depression (yet) or war (yet). They didn't get it. They weren't alive then to see the atrocities or the troubles of past generations. They only see the here and now, and believe what they're told to believe by the WTS.

26

New movie by Mel Gibson 'Hacksaw ridge'

by barry in

jw
friends

i just went to a pre screening of this movie about an adventist guy who didn't want to kill but joined the army as a medic on the front line.

desmond doss saved 75 men in one operation singlehanded on the island of okinawa where desmond worked lowering men down a 400ft cliff to safety.. i thought this may be of interest to jws because of the pacifist stand they also have.. the movie comes out on the 4 th november..

undercover

By definition, JWs are not pacifists, but by their actions, many, if not most, people regard them as pacifists. It's about perception, and like it or not, perception can be converted to reality when enough people subsribe to a particular notion. Throw in their stance on blood, and avoidance of holidays and other 'worldly' customs, and the perception is enhanced.

22

Can JWs really vote now , since when?

by Crazyguy in

is this true??

?.

undercover

If a JW in the US was DFd for voting, would their be a civil rights violation? I know the Civil Rights Act of 65 was more about race and color, but to deny (through threat of punishment by shunning) a citizen the right to vote seems to be on a slippery legal slope...

16

Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

by Socrateswannabe in

jehovah's witnesses believe:.

1. man was created in 4026 bce.

2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

undercover

So according to WT/JW chronology , the earth /universe could have been created millions of years ago However they say , ,Adam was created approximately 6000 years ago

Russell and early WT doctrine said that the entire creation process was 7,000 years per creative day, making the earth less than 50,000 years old. Old world Bible doctrine and belief. However, science has proven the earth (and universe) is much older, so the WTS has had to tweak their doctrine to align with what is commonly called 'gap creationism'. The universe and earth came into being millions of years ago, but the 'creative days' began just a short time ago (thus the 7,000 year creative days). Everything on the earth was created during this time, including Adam 6,000 years ago.

Problem with that is that it does not agree with the Bible. Exodus 20:11 - 'For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is them...'

The WTS has painted themselves into a corner with their 'gap creation' belief. It agrees with neither science nor the Bible.

16

Argument for JDubs or any Fundi's

by Socrateswannabe in

jehovah's witnesses believe:.

1. man was created in 4026 bce.

2. a global flood occurred in 2370 bce.

undercover

1. Man was created in 4026 BCE
2. A global flood occurred in 2370 BCE
3. The Israelite’s wandering in the Wilderness began in 1513 BCE

Where were these dates taken from? I'm not sure number 1 is current light...???

Per JW.org, article entitled 'Time Line of the Bible' (just looked it up on mobile device)

4026 Adam's creation

3096 Death of Adam

2370 Floodwaters fell

1513 Exodus from Egypt

114

Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou in

jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.

they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.

they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?

undercover

I have't read all the posts, so I'll pretend we're still on page one...

Are you talking 'all' JWs, or just the 'anointed'.

I used to have a pretty good handle on this, with examples of WT printings, etc, to at least argue the point that not all JWs are truly part of the 'Christian congregation' as determined by being anointed by the holy spirit, blah, blah, blah. But over time I've forgotten most of it, lost my notes, because, well, I just don't give a shit much anymore.

But, from my rusty memory, I recall that from some readings of WT doctrine it could be interpreted that only the anointed are truly Christians, while the rest of the JW brotherhood are just faithful companions, though 'true worshippers' of Jehovah, accepting Christ as their ransom. But, at the same time, you could point to other WT writings that lumped all JWs together in the Christian group, with no real signifigance between the anointed and the non-anointed. Which is typical of the WTS - talking about both sides of their mouth, going with whatever theory or belief suits their needs best at the moment. And now that the WTS has changed the F&DS to just the GB, it pretty much wipes out old doctrines/beliefs anway.

I accept that JWs consider themselves a Christian group, if their belief and acceptance of Christ is their measuring stick, just as much as I accept the Mormons are Christians by their own definitions.

I'm just glad I'm not one with them anymore.