Posts by undercover

38

Even if it's not the truth, it's still the best way to live

by Simon in

how many times did you hear that gem?

it often went along with "the truth is a protection" which is their way of saying "living a moral life is good for you ... and you can't do that without us".. but think about what people are really saying.

i think the real message is "i know it's not the truth, but i chose to follow it anyway".. it seems like a pre-emptive argument because they know they can't defend it as "the truth" so instead they switch to defending it as a lifestyle.. of course any kind of lifestyle that has a decent moral ingredient to it, respect for law and order, discipline etc... probably increases people's chances of doing better in life, but they don't have a monopoly on it.. so just remember, next time you hear someone saying "even if it's not the truth" what they are really admitting is that they already know it isn't..

undercover

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away... when I was still a young padawan, not yet experienced in the ways of the Jedi, an elder was calling on me, trying to encourage me back to the dark side (KH meetings). I laid out my defense...everything from 607 vs 587 to the beard prohibition not being non supported by scripture.

He was patient, and actually listened. I think I made him squirm on a couple of issues. Finally, I asked him what he would do if learned one day that a WT prediction failed, or that a major doctrine changed. Would he sit up, take notice, and contemplate a change? His answer - No. See, he was a trouble youth before he found the JWs. Gang violence, drugs, theft. But when he started studying, he saw he needed to change. And change he did. He went full bore into JWism. By the time I knew him, he was a family man, with kids and one of the showcase elders in the circuit. Actually, he is a good man, one of the good guy elders. I liked him. Still do. But since this religion had saved him from a life of drugs and crime, he was now in debt to them for them saving his life. He felt even if something was amiss with the WTS, he still owed them. There was no point in going further with our discussions. I wasn't going to change. He wasn't going to change.

51

To those taking a stand and not attending the Memorial tonight

by doubtfull1799 in

i salute you.

many of you, like me, are probably under enormous emotional pressure, whether from a lingering false sense of guilt from your indoctrination, whether from "invitations," and assumptions that you'll naturally be coming, or whether from outright emotional blackmail, even begging and pleading.

i am thinking of you whoever you are, all of you, even though i don't know you in person.

undercover

"Taking a stand"?
So much DRAMA!
This isn't the frikkin' Great Tribulation! It's not imaginary Armageddon!
It's NOTHING! That's ALL IT IS!
Get a grip... breathe... relax
You'll feel fine in the morning.

It is a lot of drama. And yea, it's just Tuesday, we'll all be fine in the morning. I get where you're coming from, it's not life threatening, or the end times. Just another JW meeting.

Personally, I don't have a real problem not going or going. Some years, I've skated by with nary an invite. Other years, the pressure was heavier. In those years, I give in and go. It's one hour a year, I think I can handle that. It's the only meeting I've been to in ten years if not more. (not counting JW weddings/funerals). I'm so removed from it, that it doesn't bother me to go. It's like going to some other church service. Don't believe it. Don't buy into it. It doesn't affect me.

But for some, the drama is real. The pressure from family so intense. Marriages can break up. Young people get kicked out of their parents home. These things happen when they 'take a stand' and say in effect, 'I don't believe this anymore. I'm not going' That does take some courage.

26

My Anointed Grandma’s Wavering Faith?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

some quick background information: my dad (her firstborn son) died unexpectedly this past october.

his death has really hit our family hard.

personally, i have not totally come to terms with this.

undercover

The organization values its members by their productivity. People under 15 and over 80 are poor producers, and so are marginalized.
The intuitive among JWs pick up on this, and the reaction is often the same as your grandma's.

I wish my parents and in-laws would pick up on this. Mid/late 70s and they're as hard-core a JW as you'll ever find. Nothing makes a dent with these people. And the guilt trips they can lay... it would make a Jewish grandmother blush. I've become teflon to their shenanigans, but not so others in my immediate family. They are susceptible to the guilt and fear laid on them

But OTOH, I do worry about older ones who have known nothing but a life of JWism. Should they wake up one day late in life, what would that do to their psyche? To realize you spent 70-80 years in this, only to be wrong.

70

Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??

by Crazyguy in

it's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think russia should ban them.

i would just like to remind all of you that jws are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.. sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies.

they are an extremist group!

undercover

JWs are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned

You're confusing the followers with the leadership. True, many followers adhere to rules so closely that it has lead to bad situations, but it's not the rank and file that should be punished by banning. It's the leadership that should be held accountable for their policies and rules. And banning the religion as a whole will not be adequate. Instead, as many have already pointed out, it's better to put other restrictions on them. Don't allow them to own property. Levy taxes. Punish those in authority in cover ups of child abuse cases.

But leaving all that aside, whether it's JWs, Mormons, Worldwide Church of God, and yes, even Scientology, people should be allowed to choose the religion of their choice. It's a human rights issue, not a JW issue. Ban one religion, then others are sure to follow.

We're in a particular situation because we've been JWs, been on the inside, seen how it works. And we know it's all BS, and that some of their policies are harmful, maybe even deadly on occasion. Remove that intimacy with the religion from the equation, and it becomes a human rights issue that should concern all freedom loving people.

39

July's watchtower leaves out some important info from a quote!

by stavro in

jerome over on discuss the truth has picked up on something interesting.. in the july watchtower on page 28 of the article entitled “winning the battle for your mind” the following statement is made “keep in mind that satan does not want you to think clearly or reason things out well.

because propaganda is likely to be most effective, says one source, if people… are discouraged from thinking critically.”.

the quote comes from a book entitled: “media and society in the twentieth century: a historical introduction by lyn gorman, david mclean" the watchtower however, chose to leave out a portion of the quote.. the full quote is "therefore, it is likely to be most effective if people do not have access to multiple sources of information and if they are discouraged from thinking critically.. the following sentence which the watchtower also decided was best not to include states,.

undercover

Marking, to find later

Thanks for the reference

44

Red Alert - Propaganda is Being Used!!!!!!!!

by The Searcher in

check out the latest watchtower:.

"your defense?

be determined to stick to jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface.

undercover

Keep in mind that Satan does not want you to think clearly or reason things out well. Why? Because propaganda “is likely to be most effective,” says one source, “if people . . . are discouraged from thinking critically.” (Media and Society in the Twentieth Century) So never be content passively or blindly to accept what you hear. (Prov. 14: 15) Use your God-given thinking abilities and power of reason to make the truth your own.—Prov. 2:10-15; Rom. 12:1, 2.
Page 30 (first paragraph): Your defense? Be determined to stick to Jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface. (1 Thess. 5:12, 13) Do not be “quickly shaken from your reason” when faced with what appear to be damaging attacks by apostates or other such deceivers of the mind—however plausible their charges may seem.

Irony so thick you can't cut it...

But notice what they don't suggest: fact checking. They urge the reader to not just believe anything, yet turn around and urge the reader to not believe opposers, even if their information seems plausible. And the reason is obvious - they don't want the reader to fact check. Just take their word for it. Apostates bad... WTS good.

44

Red Alert - Propaganda is Being Used!!!!!!!!

by The Searcher in

check out the latest watchtower:.

"your defense?

be determined to stick to jehovah’s organization and loyally support the leadership he provides—no matter what imperfections may surface.

undercover

Keep in mind that Satan does not want you to think clearly or reason things out well. Why? Because propaganda “is likely to be most effective,” says one source, “if people . . . are discouraged from thinking critically.”

bwahahaha... they mention Satan and critical thinking in the same sentence? Seriously? That's funny stuff right there...

44

The Latest Trend in NW England: Homeschooling Your Children

by pale.emperor in

i dont know if this is becoming a national thing or even globally.

but im hearing more and more people i knew from my jw days have taken their kids out of school to home school them instead.

in my sisters case she's taken her 8yo and 6yo children out already and her 3yo wont ever start a school.

undercover

I've seen the trend in my area. A JW relative of mine has their kids homeschooled, and I've been told that it's become quite common across many of the congregations through the city/county.

While there may be some merits to homeschooling in certain situations, when parents decide to homeschool their kids based on the desire to keep them 'separate from the world' (whether JW, or some other evangelical group), I fear that it will (further) impede their growth into normal, well adjusted, adults, that can operate in the normal world. (and more heavily indoctrinate them into whatever belief system the parents are pushing).

20

NEW PUBLICATION!..... 'References for Life and Ministry Meeting Workbook'

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

haha!

yes folks!

it's an eight page printout from the cd-rom of the scriptures and wt reference for use during the midweek clam meeting.. 'references for life and ministry meeting workbook'.

undercover

The last time I was at a KH the speaker was telling page numbers of scriptures, something I'd never heard of before

Each passing generation (not that overlapping BS) of JWs is less educated than the previous one. They are also less knowledgeable of the Bible (as far as JW knowledge goes). Therefore the time has come when your average, raised from birth JW, can't find books of the Bible.

80

Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses launches worldwide campaign againt Russia

by jwleaks in

jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.

march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.

new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.

undercover

I remember doing a letter writing campaign regarding Malawi. Back then there was no Internet, no email, no social media, so it kinda made sense. Today, I'm not so sure.

Which lends credence to my theory (and apologies if someone has already mentioned this) - that the letter writing campaign isn't so much to try to convince Russian authorities of anything, but to impress on dubs in the US, and other 'free' countries, that persecution is real, and it could be them next. A side benefit is that it gives them a sense of solidarity, but the the real intent is to give them anxiety, put a sense of dread in their life, hopefully pushing them to come closer to 'mother', not letting the 'world' seduce them or pull them away from their service to the organization.