undercover

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Posts by undercover

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  34

  Fireworks to be avoided at all birthday parties and Bethel dedications!

  by shotgun in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  taken from the feb 4 2004 almost awake mag.

  so it's ok for nominal christians but not ones who want to keep free from practises with pagan origins.

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  undercover

  For whoever asked; the article on pinatas is from the August 22nd, 2003 Watchtower. Sorry, I don't have a scanner so I can't post it.
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  113

  Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

  by Globetrotter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised jehovah's witness wife.

  we discussed so many things: feb 1 watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the un, beth sarim, blood, god's mouthpiece here on earth, etc.

  this was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt.

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  undercover

  My little bit of advice: Pick just a couple of things to discuss. Learn all that you can about those couple of things, both the WTS view and opposing views. Know these subjects frontwards and backwards. Discuss these and only these in the discussion. Do not let them change the subject. When they get backed into a corner they will seek a way out by bringing up unrelated issues, issues you may not be as up on. If they back you into a corner on something that you aren't prepared on, then they will feel they have won.

  When I had these same type of discussions, I lost count of how many times that I had to steer the conversation back to the topic at hand. Take 607 for instance. They get backed into a corner on that one. They kept trying to bring up something unrelated, leaving that topic unresolved. I had to keep bringing them back to it by saying, "I'm not prepared to talk about other subjects till we resolve this subject".
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  57

  The Society is gonna let you off your homework kids!

  by nicolaou in

  1. social
  2. family

  from the current (uk) edition of 'our kingdom ministry'.

  take a close look at paragraph 4. am i the only one who can see the old pattern of the 1980's re-emerging?

  i had thought that the watchtower had begun to take a more reasonable approach to the secular education of it's members children yet here they are again in 2004 willing to jeopardise the education these young people receive for the sake of indoctrination and control.. .

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  undercover

  Thanks for the additional material Blondie. It's interesting in those quotes, even though they are pushing meeting attendance, they never come out and say to find a way out of the homework. Some of the advice was good. Procrastinating and having it to do at the last minute is not good, even if it's not a meeting night. Right after school is a good time to get it out of the way. But the quote that started this thread went beyond these other quotes. It came right out and said meeting attendance comes before shoolwork. Get out of it if you have to. Are JW kids and parents going to scream religious persecution when a child gets a bad grade for not turning in his homework or when the teacher refuses to lighten his one JW student's homework load?
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  17

  Adultery can only happen at night - Scripture to support this statement

  by scrubmaster in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evidence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of .

  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.

  i was told that there is a scriptural principle for the above quote from the "pay attention to the flock book".

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  undercover

  Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evidence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.

  I have a friend who is a "known" homosexual. Several dubs know him and know that I know him. Even though I am happily married and not a homosexual, if I go to visit him and stay at his house and someone(a dub) accuses me of wrong conduct with this person based on the fact that I stayed at his house, I could be disfellowshipped based on this circumstantial evidence? What a load of bullshit. What happened to the two witness rule? It's okay for a freak to abuse a child but since there aren't two witnesses then it didn't happen, but because someone "spent" the night at a known homosexual's house then he must have committed wrong therefore he's liable to be disfellowshipped? That's just really fucked up. Sorry bout the language, but there are times when it does get the point across better.
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  57

  The Society is gonna let you off your homework kids!

  by nicolaou in

  1. social
  2. family

  from the current (uk) edition of 'our kingdom ministry'.

  take a close look at paragraph 4. am i the only one who can see the old pattern of the 1980's re-emerging?

  i had thought that the watchtower had begun to take a more reasonable approach to the secular education of it's members children yet here they are again in 2004 willing to jeopardise the education these young people receive for the sake of indoctrination and control.. .

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  undercover

  Here's what's sad about this and if I was still in I would probably do the same: The dubs aren't even going to blink when they read that. It's gonna go right in and lodge into the part of the brain where the WTS logic has taken over and controls thinking and even some motor skills.
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  34

  Fireworks to be avoided at all birthday parties and Bethel dedications!

  by shotgun in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  taken from the feb 4 2004 almost awake mag.

  so it's ok for nominal christians but not ones who want to keep free from practises with pagan origins.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  undercover

  The pinata defense works best with birthdays. The pinata article said,

  "When considering whether to include a pinata at a social gathering, Christians should be sensitive to the conscience of others. (1Cor 10:31-33) A main concern is, not what it meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area . Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues."

  This same logic can be applied to birthdays, throwing rice at weddings, fireworks, etc. It just doesn't make sense to say "we don't celebrate birthdays because of their pagan origins", when pinatas, fireworks and other practices with pagan origins are okay.
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  34

  Fireworks to be avoided at all birthday parties and Bethel dedications!

  by shotgun in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  taken from the feb 4 2004 almost awake mag.

  so it's ok for nominal christians but not ones who want to keep free from practises with pagan origins.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  undercover

  The whole article wasn't shown. Is there a way to scan the whole thing? Does it actually say fireworks should be avoided by faithful ones??
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  38

  JW's and Pubs/Bars

  by Heatmiser in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have noticed on past threads from posters from other countries than the usa that they would be hanging out in pubs and such while still jw's.

  in the us i believe that going to bars would pretty much be a df/da offense.

  in other countries is the policy different?

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  undercover

  I remember when owning a TV was considered to be a sign of weakness and immaturity. In our congregation the Bible study servant got a TV and was considered to be very dodgy as a result.

  Yea, back then owning a TV was bad. Now it's okay to own one, you just can't watch much on it.

  It's interesting to see the differences between English/Scottish/Irish pubs and American bars. The best pubs that I visited were the ones in the small towns. Warm, cozy, good food and all the towns people knew each other and that's where they went to catch up on the local events. Most American bars don't have that feel. Even the replicated "Irish" pubs over here cannot capture the feel of a "real" Irish pub. There are some great neighborhood bars here, don't get me wrong. I go to a good one, but in general American bars seem colder. Move em in and move em out.

  I was raised in the Southern U.S. so you've got that whole Baptist influence still lingering around even now for a lot of people. I have relatives(non JW) that will not step foot in a restaurant/bar that serves alcohol. I think certain areas have such a stigma about alcohol that bars in those areas will always seem seedy or low. Those area JWs probably do have a hangup about going in such places where JWs in Atlanta, DC, New York don't think twice about it. The WTS then uses that stigma as tool to control its members from having outside influence.
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  38

  JW's and Pubs/Bars

  by Heatmiser in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have noticed on past threads from posters from other countries than the usa that they would be hanging out in pubs and such while still jw's.

  in the us i believe that going to bars would pretty much be a df/da offense.

  in other countries is the policy different?

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  undercover

  Going to pubs/bars is not a DFing offense. Going to them often is a sign of spiritual weakness. Remember the recurring WTs that kept hounding everyone about the pitfalls of materialism and worldly associates? They would have illustrations to empasize the point. A picture of an expensive car represented materialism. A picture of a person or a couple having a drink at a bar represented being too worldly or putting emphasis on recreation, all bad things. So since even though it's not a DFing offense they present it as something that is displeasing to God and should be avoided.
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  43

  Atheist ?

  by gentlesoul in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have to ask, how many here have become non believers in god and christ since leaving the jehovahs witnesses and why?

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  undercover

  After reading all your fine post I now have to ask, what happened to faith ? Is that not what we are to maintain in order to receive Gods Blessings in the beginning ?.

  That's the problem with most JWs. Their faith was not in God. It was in a man-made organization. They may say they had faith in God, but the evidence proves otherwise. Therefore when their/our faith in the organization was lost, faith was lost. God was never involved. I think that, coupled with what drwtsn said about having already seen the hypocrisy of other religions leads us to not trust any religion.

  For most, that means there must not be a God, which isn't necessarily true. There may be a God. He does not need a man-made religion. Why should he? If he truly is the Almighty, why hide behind men?

  The closest I come to believing in a God is when I'm surrounded by nature unspoiled by man. I look around me and see nature at its finest and feel closer to God or whatever force may have created it. Day in and day out now after being freed from the WTS I define myself as agnostic, until I spend time soaking up the beauty of nature and then I feel that there is something out there somewhere. Maybe there is something to the pagan ideas of earth worship.