undercover

Joined

• started 302 topics
• posted 13,482 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by undercover

• 
  10

  Jehovah's Love - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Death

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this idea was inspired by another post i saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone.

  (i just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later).

  wt doctrine basically says that jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of armageddon.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  In last week's WT study, for example, they state that Jehovah has determined, far in advance, the exact date that Armageddon will occur. So there is no "delay" - he's waiting, not for more people to "join his organization", but rather, until his celestial alarm clock goes off.

  
  

  Yea, they've always said, 'it's not delayed, it's on track' (even tho a lot of dubs don't subscribe to that exactly). But that actually makes for an interesting point. An all knowing, omnipotent god would have to know that the world's population would increase as it has. He is the ultimate mathmetician afterall. And knowing that the population would increase to billions, why would he wait that long, unless he's a sadist (don't answer that). He didn't wait too long from Adam to Noah to put a stop to things. At least the world's population was significantly lower back then.

  And of course, that raises the question of just how ominpotent he really is, if he has to destroy everything every so often to keep his subjects in line?

  It actually goes back to your comment,
  

  Sometimes they say that, sometimes they say something different. The message changes depending on what point they want to emphasize.

  they just make up shit as they go along. None of it really makes sense if you really ponder it long enough.
  
  
  
• 
  10

  Jehovah's Love - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Death

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this idea was inspired by another post i saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone.

  (i just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later).

  wt doctrine basically says that jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of armageddon.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  This idea was inspired by another post I saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying Armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone. (I just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later)

  WT doctrine basically says that Jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of Armageddon. Now, here's the problem. The longer Armageddon is 'delayed', the more human life is set up to be destroyed. Look at 130 years of WT existance. Assuming that this is the one true religion, it's apparent after 130 years, most people of this world aren't accepting that fact. Yet, this old system lingers and lingers, the population increases, more people join the ranks of those to be destroyed, while the ranks of the 'faithful' remain bascially stagnant.

  The world population hit 2 billion around the year 1927. Had Jehovah destroyed the wicked in 1914, 1918, 1919, or 1925, as predicted and hoped for, then that's 5 to 6 billion people who would have never suffered destruction. Better to not be born than to have the rug yanked out from under your feet by a vengeful god.

  Of what use is it to wait? The world population is increasing exponentially (compared to JWs anyway). Delaying - or allowing more time before, in JW parlance - Armageddon is not allowing 'more' people to be saved, but is adding 'more' people to the list to be destroyed.

  Nice god you have there, Watchtower.
• 
  81

  Elders and Attendants sing, clap and turn backs on Street Preacher after Duluth RC.

  by ToesUp in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  very strange behavior by the attendants and elders after the duluth, ga, rc.

  on the first link the attendants start to exit the arena, then line up and turn their backs on the street preachers.

  (around the 6:00 mark).. elders and attendants after duluth rc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  At least the JWs didn't have baseball bats...

  (reference the olden days of Judge Rutherford when attendants where known to go all Negan on demonstrators)
• 
  37

  JW Stand On Concealed Carry

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if a jw wanted to get a concealed carry permit, would the society have any moral or ethical problems with it?

  in other words, if one of your elders noticed you were carrying concealed, would they be apt to just ignore it or would they counsel you on it?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Under the "Brazen Conduct" rules, one could be df'ed over pretty much anything a body of elgubs, decides to!

  
  

  It's been said a few times before, a JW can be DFd for anything 3 elders decide constitutes DFing, damn the scriptures and sometimes even the WT legal dept.

  The gun question is interesting. Never thought about concealed carry, but back when I was growing up, living outside of a metro area, guns were basically a normal thing, even for JWs. Not necessarily protection from other humans, but for hunting, protection of livestock from other animals, and just plain ole target shooting. As the city dubs moved into the area and the city met the country, there were 'debates' about gun ownership. Most city folk didn't see the need for guns, while the country folk were defensive about hanging on to them. The rural JWs kept their guns, depsite 'counsel' otherwise. They learned to not go around bragging about it.
• 
  43

  Is this the last chance for inactive and df'd ones?

  by innerpeace in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi all, just wondering if there's anything going around about the elders receiving instruction from the society to give inactive ones and disfellowshipped ones one last chance to come back?

  i ask because i have a still in family member that i received a message from, and urging me to go back.

  the elders are apparently saying there is no time left.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

  rinse and repeat ad nauseum
• 
  10

  If You Refuse to Question, How Can You Be Sure of the Answer?

  by xjwsrock in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ..... let's pose a forbidden question....is the jw faith actually the one true religion?

  if you refuse to ask this question with a true open mind and heart, how can it be said you know the answer is yes?

  put another way..... if you refuse to ask this question today, how can you really say you know today that the answer is yes?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  Not sure where this quote originated, but:

  Never trust anyone (or organization) that says they have all the answers, but doesn't allow questions
• 
  53

  Jw's and beards

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  without going into details.

  it appears that new light might be coming down the pipes that beards are acceptable.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  It appears that new light might be coming down the pipes that BEARDS ARE ACCEPTABLE.

  Forget it. Ain't gonna happen. They might print some wishy-washy BS aimed more at outsiders peaking in, but they'll never give up what control they have over dedicated followers.

  Here in most of the US, they have the male population obeying their unwritten law. Why would they give up that authority? If they give up an ounce of control here, someone might be emboldened to refuse to obey some other rule over there. No - they won't let that happen.

  At best, they'll make it a local decision - which means one of two things: At best, local elders will continue to hold to whatever standards they've been holding to for the last 50 years, so no gain there. Or at worst, and more likely, local elders will be allowed to make a decision locally - as long as it's approved by the WTS, so again, no gain there.
• 
  27

  My Lawyers Letter To The Elders

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for those of you that asked, below is a copy of my solicitors letter to the elders in my old congregation.

  he sent a similar one directly to bethel and a medical directive to my daughters gp to go on her medical records that i have already given permission for her to have a blood transfusion should she need one:.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  I think some of you are way overreacting to that picture. Apparently you never read comic books as a kid or watched any action or sci-fi movies. I can assure you I was exposed to the Paradise book, the Live Forever book, etc. and somehow I survived. Just saying...

  On one hand, I agree. The illustration in and of itself isn't any worse (or as bad) as some comic books, sci-fi movies, etc.

  But - kids know that comic books and sci-fi movies are make believe. It's not real, it's entertainment, escapism, even if they don't know the terms or words to describe it.

  When you sit in a KH and study this material, or sit in your family study and have it beat into your head that if don't obey Jehovah, this is going to happen to you, then this isn't entertainment of a violent nature, it's, at best, indoctrination, or at worst, mental abuse. If these illustrations work on (simple minded) adults, then imagine how it can affect younger, undeveloped, immature minds.
• 
  16

  Weekend visit from JWs.

  by redvip2000 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  had a visit from the jws this week.

  i've lived in this house since 2012 and this is the first time, they have reached me at home - quite the urgent work.. anyway, i was home on saturday morning and around 10am, there was a knock.

  i had a feeling it would be them.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  'A few minutes' wasted, knowing ahead of time how she would react and answer.

  I don't know why ex-JWs bother baiting JWs at the door and at their carts. We know it goes in one ear and out the other. Better to use that time/debate skills for a JW friend or family member who actually expresses a doubt or concern.

  But, to each his own. If it trips your trigger, happy shooting...
• 
  30

  How to Fade - The Basics!

  by The Searcher in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this really works.

  i've already applied the basics of this with one elder who "offered" us a shepherding visit.

  we've been totally ignored since!!!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  undercover

  The following is by no means comprehensive, but it is simple, straightforward, and very effective if you are offered a "shepherding call" ...
  ...simply say "thanks for your offer brothers, but not at the moment. I'll let you know when I feel ready."

  I used a similar approach. After a couple of sheparding calls, and their expressing concern, I told one elder, I was just taking a break (similar to how he stepped down for a period, and I pointed that out to him). I needed to recharge batteries. "Don't worry, I'm not leaving the truth" I told him (you know, Theocratic Strategy and whatnot). That backed them down, and eventually they lost interest. Face it, they have families, jobs, KH chores, their own problems. If someone doesn't come around quick enough, they're going to lose interest and move on to something/someone where they're actually somewhat successful.