to this day some have claimed that rutherford was buried secretly at beth-sarim or beth-shan anyway, even though the society has stated in print that rutherford's remains were sent to brooklyn for burial.. .
i remember/read somewhere that he was buried at staten island, new york.
can anyone confirm that?
Hi Farkel,
Using Yahoo Maps, I got the following address with zip code for Beth Sarim:
4440 Braeburn, San Diego, CA 92116-2126
I still think it would be a good idea to post on the internet the complete floor plans
for Beth-Sarim. Then we could see if it was REALLY designed for over a dozen
people to live in.
--VM44
no one really expects 'perfection' of their fellow humans, even of those in high station.
our past president, bill clinton certainly demonstrated that men in high station can and do give into acts that are not accepted by the public at large.
likewise, i doubt anyone expects that joseph rutherford would be perfect, but we would expect that as a human, he had his ways.. what about "true" spiritual leaders?
Here is a web page that has an extensive article about Beth-Shan,
otherwise known as the Watchtower's "House of Security"
http://www.premier1.net/~raines/bethshan.html
It has links to some good aerial photos of the building.
As regards, Beth Sarim, it was up for sale a few years ago. I do not
know who bought it, but could you imagine owning it?
--VM44
no one really expects 'perfection' of their fellow humans, even of those in high station.
our past president, bill clinton certainly demonstrated that men in high station can and do give into acts that are not accepted by the public at large.
likewise, i doubt anyone expects that joseph rutherford would be perfect, but we would expect that as a human, he had his ways.. what about "true" spiritual leaders?
Some more relevant information about George Fisher.
Under the supervision of Rutherford, Clayton J. Woodworth
and George H. Fisher wrote "The Finished Mystery," which
appeared in the year 1917. This was supposed to be the
posthumous volume 7 of Russell's "Studies In the Scriptures."
But was rather an attempt to justify Rutherford as the rightful
successor to Russell. (who else but the rightful successor
would be publishing the 7th volume?)
But, by the year 1927, Fisher had become a non-person as
far as Rutherford and the Watchtower were concerned. This may
have been because of the accusation Fisher made concerning
Rutherford attending the Burlesque show. Whatever the reason,
the 1927 edition of "The Finished Mystery" has all the parts written
by Fisher removed.
It was said Fisher was unfaithful, well, yes he was, unfaithful to
Rutherford, and so his words were excised!
How petty can you get?
--VM44
no one really expects 'perfection' of their fellow humans, even of those in high station.
our past president, bill clinton certainly demonstrated that men in high station can and do give into acts that are not accepted by the public at large.
likewise, i doubt anyone expects that joseph rutherford would be perfect, but we would expect that as a human, he had his ways.. what about "true" spiritual leaders?
Getting back to the original subject of this thread...
Nothing came from the accusation of George H. Fisher, he died before
any judicial proceedings could occur.
How convenient for the "Judge".
George Fisher was also one of the Watchtower men convicted of sedition
and was sent to prison along with Rutherford.
--VM44
no one really expects 'perfection' of their fellow humans, even of those in high station.
our past president, bill clinton certainly demonstrated that men in high station can and do give into acts that are not accepted by the public at large.
likewise, i doubt anyone expects that joseph rutherford would be perfect, but we would expect that as a human, he had his ways.. what about "true" spiritual leaders?
I found the book "Jehovah's Witnesses: Their Monuments To False Prophecy"
listed for sale at Randy's Freeminds site, it is only $10 for over 300 pages!
Here is the web page for Freemind's new books:
http://www.freeminds.org/sales/books.htm
A picture of the book:
BTW, the second author, Leonard Chretien, is the man who came out with
the "Witnesses of Jehovah" movie and book.
no one really expects 'perfection' of their fellow humans, even of those in high station.
our past president, bill clinton certainly demonstrated that men in high station can and do give into acts that are not accepted by the public at large.
likewise, i doubt anyone expects that joseph rutherford would be perfect, but we would expect that as a human, he had his ways.. what about "true" spiritual leaders?
hi larc,
Beth-Shan was located in Mission Valley, wasn't it? The San Diego river flows
through Mission Valley out to the ocean, but Beth-Shan was quite a distance
away from the ocean.
At the time, (1940s) the surrounding land was mostly undeveloped. I am not
aware of any potential Military or Industrial targets close by, so I wonder why
a bomb shelter was felt to be necessary. (OK, I know WWII was going on at
the time! But still, I think it was being overly cautious)
There were rumors circulating among the Witnesses at the time that the
Beth-Sarim was being expanded, but the Watchtower said there was absolutely
"No Truth" to these rumors, and people should be spending their time preaching
instead of spreading rumors.
Later, after Rutherford had died, the Watchtower printed that a proposal was
made to bury Rutherford on a some land the Society owned called "Beth Shan"
....so much for there being "No Truth" to the rumors!!!!
Has anyone written to the WTS asking for an explanation of Beth-Shan?
I wonder the response would be.
--VM44
no one really expects 'perfection' of their fellow humans, even of those in high station.
our past president, bill clinton certainly demonstrated that men in high station can and do give into acts that are not accepted by the public at large.
likewise, i doubt anyone expects that joseph rutherford would be perfect, but we would expect that as a human, he had his ways.. what about "true" spiritual leaders?
WOW! Two books about Rutherford are being written?
One by J. Penton, and another by someone Maximus knows?
I hope they will come out soon!
The books will be interesting to read. I hope hard documentation will
be included in them. Accurate information about Rutherford is hard to
come by.
It appears that everyone that was close to Rutherford isn't talking, or
when they do talk, they say only the "good" things they are expected to say.
(Example: All the praise given to Rutherford by the WT witnesses during
the Moyle libel trial, "He was a kindly man", etc.)
I hope one of the books coming out will contain the floor plan of the house
Beth-Sarim, I really want to see how many bathrooms it contained, if there
were only a few, then it was NOT designed to house the dozen or so Ancient
Worthies mentioned in Hebrews!
--VM44
this is my own actual experience from about 1967. .
i was sitting in a california kingdom hall, listening to an anoucement that the .
watchtower society was either taking a loan out, or was stretching payments .
ZazuWitts,
That is a very sad story about the Swedish sister.
Perhaps putting stories like these up on the internet will help to keep the
same thing from happening to others.
--VM44
my wife and i have been discussing the probability of the upcoming dateline program and the impact it will have on the org.
its obvious to us now that the retirement of the gb some time ago (all of their pr bs aside) was predicated by their awareness that this situation was developing, or something similar to it.
seems logical, yes?
It will be interesting to see what the reaction of the WT will be.
Was there any response from the WTS when 60 Minutes ran a
story about child custody cases several years ago? Or did they
just ignore it?
Also, when will the Dateline report be shown?
--VM44
this is my own actual experience from about 1967. .
i was sitting in a california kingdom hall, listening to an anoucement that the .
watchtower society was either taking a loan out, or was stretching payments .
This is my own actual experience from about 1967.
I was sitting in a California Kingdom Hall, listening to an anoucement that the
Watchtower Society was either taking a loan out, or was stretching payments
out over time, in order to obtain some new equipment (printing presses, I believe
it was).
When the speaker mentioned that the repayment date was a good number of years
AFTER the year 1975, laughter broke out from the WHOLE congregation!!!
I don't think the congregation would find it so funny now.
--VM44
