VM44

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Posts by VM44

• 
  22

  Carbon-14 Dating

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello all: in discussing evolution, creation, and bible chronology we will at some point pass through various dating methods that challenge religious beliefs, especially that of the watch tower religion.. some years ago the watch tower society published material (i forget the actual reference) that challenged carbob-14 dating as flawed and prone to error, especially when dating fossils.

  the wts cited some sources that dealt with sample contamination that may cause errors in reading half-life of carbon-14.. i wish i could find the article again, because it was published when i was still working in nuclear engineering.

  i recall feeling that the wts was stretching the claims to cover the understanding of bible chronology regarding the age of homo sapiens being about 4,026 years.

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  VM44

  Hi Amazing,

  What is the "science-fiction" reference the Watchtower used in
  the creation-evolution book?

  --VM44
• 
  6

  To Osarsif - Where are the H2O archives?

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi osarsif,.

  i saw you posting tonight, so i thought i woulf post this directly to you.. where are the h2o archives that you used to have at your site?.

  i hope they are still available.. --vm44

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  VM44

  Hi Osarsif,
  I saw you posting tonight, so I thought I woulf post this directly to you.

  Where are the H2O archives that you used to have at your site?
  I hope they are still available.

  --VM44
• 
  3

  The Demise and Fall of the Water Vapor Canopy

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you here might recall, i am currently .

  researching isaac n. vail and his annular ring theory.. an interesting article which some of you may like to read is.

  "the demise and fall of the water vapor canopy: a fallen.

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  VM44

  Anchor,

  Thank you for posting your reply.
  However, I have no idea what you are talking about.

  --VM44
• 
  3

  The Demise and Fall of the Water Vapor Canopy

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as some of you here might recall, i am currently .

  researching isaac n. vail and his annular ring theory.. an interesting article which some of you may like to read is.

  "the demise and fall of the water vapor canopy: a fallen.

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  VM44

  As some of you here might recall, I am currently
  researching Isaac N. Vail and his Annular ring theory.

  An interesting article which some of you may like to read is

  "The Demise and Fall of the Water Vapor Canopy: A Fallen
  Creationist Idea," by Glenn R. Morton

  [ http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/canopy.htm]

  I found this article very useful. One interesting point
  presented in this article is that certain creationist
  books promote Vail's theories without mentioning him,
  referencing him, or giving him credit for the ideas.

  The Watchtower used to endorse Vail's ideas completely.
  They were presented in some slides of the Photo Drama
  of Creation which portrayed the early stages of the formation
  of the earth.

  Currently, the WT says all such ideas are speculation, and
  does not put forth any descriptive ideas concerning the "waters
  above the firmament."

  --VM44

  (Added Note: Here are some scenes from the Photo Drama concering
  the Earth's rings)

  

  

  
• 
  22

  Carbon-14 Dating

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello all: in discussing evolution, creation, and bible chronology we will at some point pass through various dating methods that challenge religious beliefs, especially that of the watch tower religion.. some years ago the watch tower society published material (i forget the actual reference) that challenged carbob-14 dating as flawed and prone to error, especially when dating fossils.

  the wts cited some sources that dealt with sample contamination that may cause errors in reading half-life of carbon-14.. i wish i could find the article again, because it was published when i was still working in nuclear engineering.

  i recall feeling that the wts was stretching the claims to cover the understanding of bible chronology regarding the age of homo sapiens being about 4,026 years.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  VM44

  The original post of this thread was in March, so I am a bit late here.

  Searching the 1995 WT Library CD for the words "carbon" and "dating"
  resulted in the following:

  *** w52 11/1 644 Efforts to Undermine the Bible ***

  *** g71 4/8 31 Watching the World ***
  Radioactive Dating Unreliable

  *** g72 4/8 5-11 The Radiocarbon Clock Gets a Checkup ***
  The Radiocarbon Clock Gets a Checkup

  *** g72 4/8 11-12 Radiocarbon Dates Linked to Tree Rings ***
  Radiocarbon Dates Linked to Tree Rings

  *** w76 5/1 267 Insight on the News ***
  Highly Inaccurate

  *** g81 11/22 14-15 How Old Are the Fossils? ***

  *** g86 9/22 21-6 The Radiocarbon Clock ***
  The Radiocarbon Clock

  *** g90 2/8 11 What Happened to the Dinosaurs? ***

  *** g90 12/22 28 Watching the World ***
  Watching the World
  INACCURATE DATING

  The "g81 11/22 14-15 How Old Are the Fossils?" citation might
  be what you where thinking of. Here is the carbon dating material
  from that article.

  *** g81 11/22 14-15 How Old Are the Fossils? ***
  RADIOCARBON DATING. The radiocarbon clock, based on a half-life of carbon 14 of 5,500 years, is much more useful for measuring ages in the span of man's history on earth. In this case we are not using a radioactive element that has been here ever since creation. With such a short life, the radiocarbon would have all disappeared ages ago. But this isotope is being formed continually by the rain of cosmic rays upon the earth's atmosphere.
  All living things have carbon in their every body part, and while they are living they have the same proportion of carbon 14 as the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. When they cease to live and are buried and cut off from the atmosphere, the carbon 14 gradually decays and disappears. So if an old piece of wood or charcoal is exhumed, one can measure the proportion of carbon 14 remaining and tell how long ago it was part of a living tree.
  Again, that is the theory. In practice, there are many things that can cause false readings. One thing that can easily spoil a sample is possible contamination with other materials that might contain carbon either older or younger.
  The most serious question, especially about very old specimens, is whether the radiocarbon was in the same proportion in the atmosphere in ancient times as it is today. There is no way to be sure of this, because it depends upon cosmic ray showers, which are notably variable and sporadic. If, for instance, for some reason during mankind's earliest history, the cosmic rays averaged only half the intensity they have today, any sample from that era would appear to be 5,500 years older than it really is.
  Since we have no way of knowing how intense cosmic rays were in past ages, we are wise to accept carbon-14 dates only for the period for which the clock has been calibrated with historical materials, back to about 3,500 years ago. Older than that, they may be increasingly inaccurate.
• 
  10

  Society Movie from 1967

  by drahcir yarrum in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in 1967 or 1968 the society had a film out designed for teenagers titled "heritage".

  it was the most pathetic, but hilarious propaganda movie i ever remember seeing.

  does anyone know if this movie is still in existence?

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  VM44

  Ven,

  Do you have a new picture?

  It looks different than the old one. :-)

  --VM44
• 
  10

  Society Movie from 1967

  by drahcir yarrum in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in 1967 or 1968 the society had a film out designed for teenagers titled "heritage".

  it was the most pathetic, but hilarious propaganda movie i ever remember seeing.

  does anyone know if this movie is still in existence?

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  VM44

  I think I saw that movie. It was in glorious B&W.

  I remember the scene showing some teenages in a convertible car, drinking and
  throwing the empties out to break on the rocks.

  Haven't thought about that for years!

  --VM44
• 
  1

  Isaac Newton Vail

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after reading alanf's post about "rutherfordian science" i become.

  curious about the inventor of the earth annular ring theory, isaac.

  newton vail, who lived from 1840 to 1912.. vail's theory was the earth originally was surrounded by a number.

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  VM44

  After reading AlanF's post about "Rutherfordian Science" I become
  curious about the inventor of the Earth Annular Ring theory, Isaac
  Newton Vail, who lived from 1840 to 1912.

  Vail's theory was the Earth originally was surrounded by a number
  of annular rings, each ring composed of a different substance. These
  rings over time fell to the earth, creating the strata and mineral deposits.

  The final ring was composed of water, and when it fell it caused the
  Great Flood.

  C.T. Russell knew about Vail's theory and endorsed it completely. The
  annular ring theory was even portrayed in the Photo Drama of Creation
  movie.

  Does anyone have any further information about Mr Vail? I know that
  he was born a Quaker, and taught at a Quaker school for time. And that
  he formed a company in Pasadena, California to exploit his theory.

  --VM44
• 
  13

  WT CD's

  by closer2fine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have seen several mentions of watchtower cd's.

  where might i obtain one?

  closer.

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  VM44

  I have observed that while Jehovah's Witnesses in general are glad
  to place literature with people, there are certain things that will
  trigger suspicion in the JWs when people they don't know ask for them.

  One of these "trigger" items is the WT Library CD-ROM.

  In fact, I would say that, if you are not a member of the
  congregation, the literature counter will not order a copy
  of the CD for you, or if there are CDs available, the "Brothers"
  will be first to get them.

  If you do ask for a CD, the JWs want to know, "Why do you want
  such an extensive collection of WT literature?" They ask this
  because they know anyone who has not gone through their standard
  6 month indoctrination of "Bible" studies using WT books, would
  most likely not be interested in receiving such a massive collection
  of WT thought.

  If the WT REALLY wanted to get the literature into hands of people,
  they could do a mass mailing of the WT-CD directly by mail.

  AOL has been sending out CDs for years now, so it could be done.
  But the WTS will never do it. Too much information without any
  controlling guidance from a study conductor!

  --VM44

  P.S. The first WT Library Cd came out in 1993, then there was
  a 1995 version. These two are all the ones that I am familar with.
  For what other years did the WTS produce a WT library Cd?
• 
  4

  Day One - Theocratic Fiction?

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "day one" is a story written by a jehovah's witness about what things.

  might be like the day after armageddon.. this example of theocratic fiction has been around for quite a while.. but some may not be aware of it.. you can read it at this address:.

  [ http://www.freeminds.org/dayone.htm].

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  VM44

  What I want to know is this.

  Where is Jesus mentioned in the story?